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Thread: Dems Don't Want It Called Obamacare Anymore

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    Come on, Cary. Government controlling the means of production, freedom to live where you chose, worship where you chose, etc, etc.?? Where do you get this tripe? Welfare workers forcing hiring?

    Cary, how many multi-millionaires in Congress? Are they welfare queens? How did they get those millions? Don't they write the laws? I rest my case.

    Doctors are free to treat anyone ACA or no ACA. Hospitals are required to treat all comers under the Hill-Burton Act, under which most received construction moneys.
    First of all, I never said that welfare workers forced anyone to hire someone. I said WELFARE WORKERS FORCED PEOPLE TO LOOK FOR JOBS THEY DID NOT WANT IN THE FIRST PLACE. Many times I had people coming into my office with a resume then asking me to sign a form that they had come in looking for a job. They wasted my time and did not even WANT a job. The welfare worker wasted my time by forcing them to "look" for a job.k But never fear, it gave a welfare worker a job. You call that tripe? I call it FACTS. I can imagine how many employers would be happy to tell the welfare dept. that they could force people to look for a job but to tell them DON'T COME LOOKING FOR ONE FROM ME, because most don't even want one.

    Control of the means of production? What do you call forcing insuring abortion, contraception, ect. on insurance companies?

    Live where you choose? If there is one employer then don't you realize that it controls where you live?? If you can't understand that then I will be happy to educate you. When will people realize that while both the insurance companies and the government try to control treatment but only the government has the power of the law to enforce their wishes. You say doctors are free to treat anyone they please ACA or not but do you claim that is true under a single employer system? You said that the ACA is flawed. Tell me what the "FIX" in your opinion is. You know as well as I do that the "fix" will be a single employer system. Any idiot should have realized that it will be a total failure when the gov. gave more than 2000 waivers even before it began.

  2. #72
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Typical republican duplicity. Damn social workers because they don't require people to look for work but then you turn around and blast them when they do!

    If you sign the dang form you are part of the problem and are just as fraudulent as the dude coming in.

    Say, can we send a cup of hot chocolate down to your bunker?
    Last edited by zeus3925; 11-25-2013 at 12:32 PM.
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  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    Typical republican duplicity. Damn social workers because they don't require people to look for work but then you turn around and blast them when they do!
    I NEVER said that and you KNOW it. I said don't come looking for a job when you don't want one. By the way, you would not have to FORCE(your words not mine) them to if they WANTED one. Also I NEVER said "damn social workers" (your words not mine).

    Let me see if I can make this PERFECTLY CLEAR. I am not a "republican". I am not a "democrat". I hold views that are in the majority "libertarian". Anyone and that is ANYONE who believes in individual freedom, and believes that no one should be punished for his successes and no one should be rewarded for his failures by the government is someone with who I would agree.

    Anyone who thinks the government wants to "help" anyone or is "charitable" has no clue nor looks at history. The Government is and has NEVER been in the charity business. It is in the rules, regulations, taxes and DEPENDENCE AND CONTROL business. THAT is the business of today's government.

    I asked you how you would FIX ACA . Why not respond to the question?

  4. #74
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caryalsobrook View Post
    I NEVER said that and you KNOW it. I said don't come looking for a job when you don't want one. By the way, you would not have to FORCE(your words not mine) them to if they WANTED one. Also I NEVER said "damn social workers" (your words not mine).

    Let me see if I can make this PERFECTLY CLEAR. I am not a "republican". I am not a "democrat". I hold views that are in the majority "libertarian". Anyone and that is ANYONE who believes in individual freedom, and believes that no one should be punished for his successes and no one should be rewarded for his failures by the government is someone with who I would agree.

    Anyone who thinks the government wants to "help" anyone or is "charitable" has no clue nor looks at history. The Government is and has NEVER been in the charity business. It is in the rules, regulations, taxes and DEPENDENCE AND CONTROL business. THAT is the business of today's government.

    I asked you how you would FIX ACA . Why not respond to the question?
    Damn is a verb in this case, ie. you condemn.

    Fix the ACA? Go with the French system. But politically it ain't going to happen.

    Libertarian, eh? Well what you know! Franco has company.

    But tell me, how it that you get all chesty when I take on the GOPpers if you ain't one.
    Last edited by zeus3925; 11-25-2013 at 01:43 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    Damn is a verb in this case, ie. you condemn.

    Fix the ACA? Go with the French system. But politically it ain't going to happen.

    Libertarian, eh? Well what you know! Franco has company.

    But tell me how come you get all chesty when I take on the GOPpers if you ain't one?
    Again I did not "condemn" (damn your words not mine). I did criticize them for forcing their clients to do anything. If I were to condemn them, it would be to the private sector jobs which I suspect would be worse than to jail, hell, or the guilitine.

    Not sure what you mean by "go with the French System". Do you mean replace the ACA with the French system? Also I am not familiar with the French System so could you tell me how it differs from the ACA?

    I never claimed to be a Libertarian. Franco and I agree on many things but not all, the Gold Standard is an example. I think I also said that I am for any democrats who want to prevent the government from punishing those who are successful and reward those who fail but that does not make me a democrat either.

    I would not be surprised if a number of democrats would agree with me in that the government should issue only a civil union license and do away with the marriage license. Let the churches deal with the term "marriage". Make it a legal license and not a religious license. I don't care if it is made between 500 men and 1000 women, or between a woman and a goat just so long as the legal union is defined, as it applies to the law.

    I pulled up the description of the French system. It is in FACE A SINGLE EMPLOYER SYSTEM. The French government sets prices and payments for services rendered. No different from England and Germany other than it allocates more as a % of GDP health care. The French Government sets the reimbursement with price controls. You don't think that is controlling the means of the production and distribution of healthcare services? You don't think that a bureaucrat sitting in Washington could decide that Nashville had too many doctors and by lowering the reimbursement in Nashville and raising the reimbursement in Chicago that they could force doctors to move to Chicago???? Give me a break. You don't think that the bureaucrat could decide that it was a better policy to make abortions more available than say chemo therapy for cancer for a 70 year old person, that all they have to do is make it profitable to perform abortions an unprofitable to treat a 70 year old for cancer? A pig by any other name is a pig. By the same token a Single Employer System by any other name is STILL a single Employer System and it doesn't matter whether it is Canada, France, Germany, Cuba or North Korea.
    Last edited by caryalsobrook; 11-25-2013 at 02:10 PM.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by caryalsobrook View Post
    Again I did not "condemn" (damn your words not mine). I did criticize them for forcing their clients to do anything. If I were to condemn them, it would be to the private sector jobs which I suspect would be worse than to jail, hell, or the guilitine.

    Not sure what you mean by "go with the French System". Do you mean replace the ACA with the French system? Also I am not familiar with the French System so could you tell me how it differs from the ACA?

    I never claimed to be a Libertarian. Franco and I agree on many things but not all, the Gold Standard is an example. I think I also said that I am for any democrats who want to prevent the government from punishing those who are successful and reward those who fail but that does not make me a democrat either.

    I would not be surprised if a number of democrats would agree with me in that the government should issue only a civil union license and do away with the marriage license. Let the churches deal with the term "marriage". Make it a legal license and not a religious license. I don't care if it is made between 500 men and 1000 women, or between a woman and a goat just so long as the legal union is defined, as it applies to the law.
    Cary, a return to the Gold Standard is not on the Libertarian Party's Platform. Though I think it is the only sound money, we have more important and immediate battles to win. One being an annual audit of the Federal Reserve.

    Libertarian's stance on Obamacare is that the government should stay out of the issue because we know the only thing they can accomplish is in making in worse. Lets face it, the created the problem that they think they are fixing with O-care. We are advocates of a return to the pre PPO HMO days. It is the PPO HMO system that set Healthcare on a downward spiral. .
    It's such a shame that in the USA, defending Liberty has become such a heroic deed.

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    Cary, a return to the Gold Standard is not on the Libertarian Party's Platform. Though I think it is the only sound money, we have more important and immediate battles to win. One being an annual audit of the Federal Reserve.

    Libertarian's stance on Obamacare is that the government should stay out of the issue because we know the only thing they can accomplish is in making in worse. Lets face it, the created the problem that they think they are fixing with O-care. We are advocates of a return to the pre PPO HMO days. It is the PPO HMO system that set Healthcare on a downward spiral. .
    Actually Franco, I have never read the Libertarian Platform. I was told a number of years ago that many of my views were that of a Libertarian. If I were to pick someone who is most in line with my views, it would be John Stossell. At a young age my primary goal was to save like no other so that I could live like no other. Politics were not my concern. I did not get married at 18, I was 29. I did not have a child at 20, I was 39 and had only 1 because I knew I could afford that 1. I did not buy a house till I was 37 but rented because it was cheaper. My first debt was for land and my office. Never a mortgage more than 15 years.

    I did not know whether the Gold Standard was part of the Libertarian platform or not. I was just pointing out that we do not agree on that point. I do like the idea of an annual audit of the FED but would go much much farther. I would severely limit the FED's ability to play with the money supply by setting a CONSTANT growth in the money supply consistant with a healthy growing economy. This would also severely restrict with it's ability to monkey with interest rates. You do these things, you probably wouldn't need an audit but in any case it certainly would be very easy to do.

    We probably agree on foreign intervention, my reason because WE ARE BROKE. My feeling is that if are to intervene anywhere, it should be in Mexico, a country as corrupt and despicable as any and IS ON OUR OWN BORDER. I feel for those illegal emigrants and believe there would be far less if their country was not so corrupt.

    I think far too many Republican politicians are content with going to a system where the government controls the means of production. they are just content to get there slower than most democrats. Whether it is the Libertarians, Republicans or Democrats, I only hope that those who cherish and defend individual freedoms join together and stop the race to look like what China used to look like while China races to look like what we used to look like.

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by caryalsobrook View Post
    Actually Franco, I have never read the Libertarian Platform. I was told a number of years ago that many of my views were that of a Libertarian. If I were to pick someone who is most in line with my views, it would be John Stossell. At a young age my primary goal was to save like no other so that I could live like no other. Politics were not my concern. I did not get married at 18, I was 29. I did not have a child at 20, I was 39 and had only 1 because I knew I could afford that 1. I did not buy a house till I was 37 but rented because it was cheaper. My first debt was for land and my office. Never a mortgage more than 15 years.

    Wow, that reads exactly like my life. Except I married at 28 not 29, and bought my first house at 35 instead of 37. Bought my first house with 33% down and my second with 50% down. Hope to have the house payed off before Liz goes to college. She is a high school freshman, 13 years old. Hope that works out because besides what she may get for scholarships & summer jobs, I'll be paying the rest and I don't want to dig into savings... My goal when I was younger was to retire at 55. Not going to happen.

    FWIW I thought you might be interested in the following dentist story. My dentist's son went to dental school. When he was graduating he came home to work with dad in his practice. He bought a lot right behind my house and started building a $1/2 million house on the lot. That's a lot of house here in South Dakota. He could not convince his son to move into an apartment until he could save up some cash. He says, I don't know what he expects me to be paying him anyhow. Well I guess it wasn't enough. Next thing you know, the son is buying dad's practice. Dad cuts back to working a couple days/week. When dad had the business I got a root canal & crown for about $1000. The son takes over and the same/similar root canal crown cost me a cool $2,000. The son sells his house and builds a $1 million house about a mile away. Dad confides in me that it bothers him to see the son flaunting such wealth in a small town and complains that they teach those kids business in dental school and that is all it is to them anymore. I friend of mine who also runs field trials was a professor at University of Minnesota Dental school. Had the son as a student. Tells me the same thing, that the kids going through dental school have one thing on their minds and one thing only. The dollar... By the way, the son currently can't be any older than 35. The inside of their big home is furnished like something out of a magazine. And me and every one of his patients know why our dental rates doubled in the last half dozen years or so. But if you call around, he's just charging the going rate it seems.
    Last edited by Buzz; 11-25-2013 at 03:07 PM.
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  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    Cary, a return to the Gold Standard is not on the Libertarian Party's Platform. Though I think it is the only sound money, we have more important and immediate battles to win. One being an annual audit of the Federal Reserve.

    Libertarian's stance on Obamacare is that the government should stay out of the issue because we know the only thing they can accomplish is in making in worse. Lets face it, the created the problem that they think they are fixing with O-care. We are advocates of a return to the pre PPO HMO days. It is the PPO HMO system that set Healthcare on a downward spiral. .
    Coupled with big Pharma and lawyers. Not everything can be blamed on the government.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    Come on, Cary. Government controlling the means of production, freedom to live where you chose, worship where you chose, etc, etc.?? Where do you get this tripe? Welfare workers forcing hiring?

    Cary, how many multi-millionaires in Congress? Are they welfare queens? How did they get those millions? Don't they write the laws? I rest my case.

    Doctors are free to treat anyone ACA or no ACA. Hospitals are required to treat all comers under the Hill-Burton Act, under which most received construction moneys.
    There are plenty of rich guys in both houses of Congress who were average Joe's when they got there.
    See Dingy Harry Reid... He was a small businessman from a Podunk town in Nevada... (I love Podunk towns in Nevada and elsewhere).

    He and many other have enriched themselves with pork barrel projects and kickbacks from lobbyists. Reid is just the slimiest one I could think of right off the bat.
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