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Thread: ACL Issues Are They Inherited?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Margo Ellis's Avatar
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    Default ACL Issues Are They Inherited?

    Is there any information on this? I know most ACL injuries are caused by trauma but is there any link to show that this might be a concern as a weakness in a line?

    As we move forward in our search for a puppy these are some of the questions we are asking ourselves.

    Thank you
    Margo Ellis

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    Senior Member JusticeDog's Avatar
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    There are studies being done right now on that very issue. I know the University of Wisconsin Madison vet school has one. They have been looking over eight with no CCL tears of certain pedigrees. Many pedigrees they had a lot of..... last year to complete their research. I don't know where they are with it.
    Susan

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    Senior Member Julie R.'s Avatar
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    Right now many people (myself included) believe there is a genetic component to CL injuries, as evidenced by the fact that in something over 80% of them, the dog will need repair on the other leg. This is NOT, as some claim, because the dog overuses the good leg during rehab. If this were the case, then 3 legged dogs with a rear leg amputation would all need surgery on the remaining back leg. People breeding dogs with CL injuries will all claim they're from catastrophic injuries but until there is more information available from the studies, I personally will avoid using any dogs with CL injuries in my breeding program. I used to think these injuries were the dirty little secret of the field Lab world, but they've become increasingly common in CBRs and in every case I've heard about, if you do some digging you can find close relatives of the injured dog (parents, offspring or siblings) that have had similar injuries. And you do have to dig, because as evidence increasingly points to a genetic component, people tend to be less than forthcoming about these injuries in their dogs, especially if they are breeding them.
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    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    There was a piece (Stabilizing the Stabilizer) in Purina's Today's Breeder about development of a conformation score to identify dogs at risk. It features Weezer Retreezer. It may be the research Susan mentioned. It includes some references to the scientific literature. It starts on page 16: http://purinaproclub.com/media/1386/tb82.pdf
    Renee P

  5. #5

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    Genetics, overweight and bad luck are the biggest reasons that are considered with these dogs. Labradors and Rottweilers are over represented these days as to incidence but other breeds have it occur, too. Last week we fixed a Brittany and a boxer. Bad luck for the Brittany(other dog ran into her) and the boxer was overweight.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    I too believe there is a genetic component, I think something is off on the angulation of certain dogs, (perhaps a side affect of the Show-Field split; Field people breed for what will succeed in the field; don't really look at or often times even know what to look for in bone structure/angulation, it's never rated) Form-Follows function-structure; until it becomes easy to compensate. ACL-CCL surgery success rate and recovery keeps getting better and better; dogs can recover, run, succeed and breed, thus a tendency is developed in certain lines. Still I've been to a couple of conferences on it, and the name of the game is you can really cut those injuries down (~75-80%); if you warm up a dog (meaning just getting them out and letting them walk around (naturally-no bumpers etc) for (10-15mins) ) before they run. Most people don't do this; just pull the dog out of a crate; air on lead for ~3-5min, run the dog; and Pop goes the tendon . Still If I was looking for a field pup, I'd ask about the tendency; but I'd also be looking at bone angles-solid structure. I'd be looking for something I always notice (cough) a "Nice A$$"
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 11-25-2013 at 11:27 AM.
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    Senior Member hotel4dogs's Avatar
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    I, too, have read that it's not so much that there's a genetic predisposition to ACL-CCL injuries, but rather a genetic component to the leg structure that puts a dog at risk for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt'EmUp View Post
    I too believe there is a genetic component, I think something is off on the angulation of certain dogs, (perhaps a side affect of the Show-Field split; Field people breed for what will succeed in the field; don't really look at or often times even know what to look for in bone structure/angulation, it's never rated) Form-Follows function-structure; only until it becomes easy to compensate. ACL-CCL surgery success rate and recovery keeps getting better and better; dogs can recover, run, succeed and breed, thus a tendency is developed in certain lines. Still I've been to a couple of conferences on it, and the name of the game is you can really cut those injuries down (~75-80%); if you warm up a dog (meaning just getting them out and letting them walk around (naturally-no bumpers etc) for (10-15mins) ) before they run. Most people don't do this; just pull the dog out of a crate; air on lead for ~3-5min, run the dog; and Pop goes the tendon . Still If I was looking for a field pup, I'd ask about the tendency; but I'd also be looking at bone angles-solid structure in the back. I'd be looking for something I always notice (cough) a "Nice A$$" (cough)

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  8. #8
    Senior Member frontier's Avatar
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    Research open and closed funded by Canine Health Foundation on Cruciate Ligament Rupture
    http://www.akcchf.org/research/funde...ease=184786692

    Dr. Muir lists key factors that promote rupture in this article
    http://www.tualatinkc.org/pdf/Is%20C...%20Rupture.pdf
    Last edited by frontier; 11-25-2013 at 11:32 AM.
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    Senior Member suepuff's Avatar
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    The other aspect that I am really curious about too is: Is the incidence really on the rise or are we just noticing more? I notice any hitch in my guys step. I go onto farms that I work with and their dogs have issues, that their owners NEVER even see. Same with pet people in obedience classes. Are we, as performance people, just hyper sensitive to all aspects of our dogs? Do we notice more health issues in general because we read and stay on top of latest research and rehab/conditioning? I do as I have access to all sorts of journal articles and specialists because of the field I work in. I sometimes wish I knew less.

    I agree that warm ups and cool downs are not what they should be. I really try to get the dogs warmed up before running and stretched now more then I ever did. I do throw a bumper off to the side and out of the way at hunt tests to get my dogs warmed up and moving. I asked a couple years ago if that was considered training on this forum. It's not meant to be, but it does a good job of getting the dogs moving. More so then just letting them air. Some of my agility buddies that are competing at higher levels do a really good job of this.

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  10. #10
    Senior Member John Lash's Avatar
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    I think it's genetic.

    I also think a lot of it is the simple fact that the dogs of today run a lot further than the dogs of yesterday. In training and at trials. If you add up 400 yards and 400 yards etc, etc it doesn't take long and your dog is running miles. Do this all year or even 6 months of the year and those tendons are really taking a beating.

    I don't think we're just "more aware" it takes surgery to correct.

    I don't think there are a lot of overweight FC's. Most are in incredible physical condition.

    Athletes whether canine or human that perform to the limit tear something eventually.
    Last edited by John Lash; 11-25-2013 at 04:11 PM.
    John Lash

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