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Thread: The Iran Deal

  1. #11
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Iranian President comes out with his own "yes we can" video.

    A commenter to the story posted a crude translation:

    Lets open the opportunity of serving Iran to all those who love this country. Lets leave it to the competent elites to serve this country.
    Lets wipe hatred from chests, replace enmity with friendship, and animosity with reconcilement.
    Let the merciful face of Islam, the rational face of Iran, the human side of the revolution, and the passionate side of the regime make history.
    I feel the weight of this ballot and this inauguration on my shoulders and seek help only from God. I ask him sincerely to keep me from arrogance, greed, and jealousy. My God, I seek rescue in you, keep me from autocracy, from taking hasty decisions, and from preferring my own benefits to those of the nation.
    Link to the Washington Post story.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...n-music-video/

    I guess Iranians were out in the street celebrating the "non-deal."
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  2. #12
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Obama's foreign policy;

    Strengthen: Syria, Russia and Iran.
    Weaken: Israel, Gulf Arabs, and the USA!


    You progressives must be DELIGHTED!!!!!

  3. #13
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Here's an interesting take on the Iran deal.

    Basically, the US writes off the ME, since we will no longer really need their oil as we have access to our own, and the ME countries figure out a way to protect themselves against Iran.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/...ddle_east.html
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  4. #14
    Senior Member Henlee's Avatar
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    I have heard many complaints of the dangers of incrementalism when it comes to domestic politics, but when it comes to foreign politics you expect a grand slam? The enormous stride we have made is getting them to the negations table dealing their prized program away. If they don't sense some win out of this then we will be nowhere. We are offering them a chance to make their own money by giving up what they deem to be an essential tool to their survival. What is that costing us? We still have the military options available to us and the sanctions can back in the stroke of a pen. We haven't really had the taste for war lately and this is what a peaceful solution tastes like. This is not a bad approach if bombing runs are not what you want. Doing nothing would have guaranteed them a bomb.
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  5. #15
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henlee View Post
    I have heard many complaints of the dangers of incrementalism when it comes to domestic politics, but when it comes to foreign politics you expect a grand slam? The enormous stride we have made is getting them to the negations table dealing their prized program away. If they don't sense some win out of this then we will be nowhere. We are offering them a chance to make their own money by giving up what they deem to be an essential tool to their survival. What is that costing us? We still have the military options available to us and the sanctions can back in the stroke of a pen. We haven't really had the taste for war lately and this is what a peaceful solution tastes like. This is not a bad approach if bombing runs are not what you want. Doing nothing would have guaranteed them a bomb.
    I am not in favor of going to war with them ... but do not believe there is a high likelihood of them paying any price here. They are getting quite a lot with easing of sanctions ... if Congress lets that happen. Proposed Senate legislation is that Iran's compliance go on a month-to-month basis in the easing of sanctions.

    I believe they are just buying themselves some time, and easing of the sanctions will help them avoid domestic unrest while they proceed with their nuclear program.

    Keep in mind, too, that Obama now has a reputation for being untrustworthy. His track record with Egypt and Libya are evident. While I am not in favor of war with Syria either, the POTUS should never have drawn that red line to begin with. He simply bumbled with Syria. Why should anyone in the ME trust him? What has he done to earn trust? Their word to Obama is only as good as they believe that Obama's word is to them.

    We'll see how it unfolds. I hope I'm wrong. If I'm right, it will be a very dangerous world.
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  6. #16
    Senior Member Henlee's Avatar
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    When India, Pakistan and North Korea got the bomb the world stood up and took notice of them. The holding of a nuclear weapon is considered the ultimate source of security that a country can provide itself. Be honest if we haven't leveled North Korea yet are we ever going too? Not so much as to destroy Israel, but to insolate itself from invasion such as it faces from Iraq in the 70's and 80's. I believe that is Iran's goal with the bomb.

    It has been difficult to deal with Iran since the revolution. Now because of the Arab spring they felt compelled to "elect" their first real moderate. Sanctions up to this point have not worked. They don't like them, but they haven't dissuaded their actions. It is my estimate that they feel that if they have a bomb the world will be forced to end the sanctions anyhow. That thought does have some merit. We may be forced to end sanctions if they acquired a bomb. So in a strange twist of fate we have the first Iranian government that we can work with. It is a great time to show them that if they go our way their country will be secure and will be respected and allowed to prosper. They have already seen the poopy end of the stick now they need to see that there is another side also. At some point they will have to choose, but it is our job to help them choose the right way. We can't do that with more sanctions (that haven't worked) and we are unwilling to go to war. Even if they continue in secret for awhile they will be well aware of the consequences. If it is a diplomatic solution that we want then we have to be onboard for a diplomatic process.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Sanctions have worked that is why the change in attitude by the Iranians.

    Yesterday's Reason Magazine carried this story.

    "Every relevant intelligence agency in the world has verified this fact for more than a decade. Two U.S. National Intelligence Estimates that were made public in 2007 and 2011 underscored this. The International Atomic Energy Agency has also consistently asserted that Iran has not diverted any nuclear material for any military purpose.Even Israeli intelligence analysts agree that Iran is “not a danger” to Israel."

    http://reason.com/archives/2013/11/2...uclear-weapons

    My problem with the way Obama and Kary are handling this is that the Iranians are in such dire straights that we could have negotiated a much better deal.
    It's time we abandon our party affiliations and rather than being good Dems or good Repubs we all become good Americans. MJH345

  8. #18
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Henlee
    It has been difficult to deal with Iran since the revolution. Now because of the Arab spring they felt compelled to "elect" their first real moderate. Sanctions up to this point have not worked. They don't like them, but they haven't dissuaded their actions.

    I don't think that is proof that the sanctions have not worked; just proof that they are willing to let their population suffer.

    It is my estimate that they feel that if they have a bomb the world will be forced to end the sanctions anyhow. That thought does have some merit. We may be forced to end sanctions if they acquired a bomb.

    There is a name for that: extortion; blackmail. "I'll kill you if you don't do what I want you to do." Your last sentence would indicate that they would then have the world over a barrel. Wouldn't that mean that their extortion would be effective?

    Are sanctions still in place for North Korea? Not sure of that.

    So in a strange twist of fate we have the first Iranian government that we can work with.

    You are more trusting than I am. I believe it is a new facade to the same policies. Rhouhani may not be as tempestuous as Admenajad (I can never spell that name right!), but history indicates that the goals are the same. Sort of the "good cop, bad cop" game?

    It is a great time to show them that if they go our way their country will be secure and will be respected and allowed to prosper.

    And why would they trust Obama? They may not be friendly toward Egypt or Libya (I can lose track of who doesn't like who over there), but they cannot help but observe how the US has treated other ME regimes who have played ball with the US. Maybe Gadafi also thought that by going along with the US gave him some security?

    They have already seen the poopy end of the stick now they need to see that there is another side also. At some point they will have to choose, but it is our job to help them choose the right way. We can't do that with more sanctions (that haven't worked) and we are unwilling to go to war. Even if they continue in secret for awhile they will be well aware of the consequences. If it is a diplomatic solution that we want then we have to be onboard for a diplomatic process.
    I think they believe there will be no consequences ... observing Syria. I'm sure that they realize the US (especially the population) do not want to go to war in the ME again.

    A basic underlying truth is that Muslims in the ME have not even been able to negotiate with each other. Why would they be more friendly to infidels and "the great Satan"? Just does not compute.

    They will do whatever they have to do to protect their own power/control. Their Muslim faith allows that they lie to advance the cause.

    The US is a poor negotiator. Does one remember the Viet Nam peace talks? The US delegates packed a suitcase and rented hotel rooms. The Vietnamese brought trunks and rented houses for a year. That should have told us something at the get-go. Remember the extended negotiations about the shape of the table? We are quite poor, it seems, as observers of cultures that have made an art of negotiation and how to create delays and frustrations. Obama should have sent a union boss like Trumka instead of Perry

    I see no harm in talking, but also believe the US has to hold some of their trump cards back.
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  9. #19
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    The lead U.S. negotiator in the current Iran nuclear talks, Undersecretary for Political Affairs Wendy Sherman, was the Clinton administration’s State Department counselor and special advisor for North Korea policy from 1997 to 2001.
    As such, Sherman was not directly involved in the Agreed Framework talks (she was assistant secretary for legislative affairs from 1993 to 1996), but she did play a key role in subsequent dealings with Pyongyang, including negotiations over its troubling missile advances and normalization efforts. She also traveled with Secretary of State Madeline Albright to Pyongyang in 2000 and met with Kim Jong-il.
    - See more at: http://cnsnews.com/news/article/patr....z0N9pBpU.dpuf
    http://cnsnews.com/news/article/patr...an-and-n-korea
    This piece draws the similarities to the deal with North Korea.

    Even better, the US lead negotiator in the Iran talks is the same person who was the Clinton administration's State Dept counselor and special advisor for policy for North Korea between 1997 to 2001. What could possibly go wrong?
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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  10. #20
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    this report from Al-Arabiya ...:
    Iran and the United States are to establish a joint chamber of commerce within a month, with direct flights also planned, an Iranian official said Wednesday in a newspaper report.

    "Iran-U.S. chamber of commerce will be launched in less than one month," Abolfazl Hejazi, a member of Iran's Chamber of Commerce, Industries, Mines and Agriculture, told the English-language Iran Daily.

    In the wake of a historic accord on Sunday between Tehran and major powers on Iran's controversial nuclear program, Hejazi also said his country was ready to start direct flights to the United States.


    Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/...#ixzz2m58BQXas
    Why would we need a COC with Iran so soon? Why would we need direct flights?

    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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