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Thread: Training Programmes? ...idle curiousity!

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    Default Training Programmes? ...idle curiousity!

    One very notable difference between how you train in USA vs how we train in UK, is that it seems (and I may be mistaken) that the majority of you (who are training particularly to compete) are on, or follow, some sort of "programme", which is produced by a particular trainer/kennels. In the UK, there is nothing much parallel to this (other than just a couple of 'celebrity' DVDs), and we all seem to train in a much more 'organic' (haphazard! LOL) way. Perhaps partly because the nature of our game is somewhat different.

    Without diverging into picking through the whys and wherefores of what methods are 'better', can anyone tell me is there a 'programme' which doesn't involve the use of an electric collar, or force fetch? If there isn't, there isn't. But just wondered if there was.

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    Senior Member crackerd's Avatar
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    km, specific to training competitively, for North American competition, particularly field trials, none that has been made known to or gained any traction (via bonafides) with the retriever-training public.

    How 'bout training for eyewipes without FF or the e-collar, how do you manage that?

    MG

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    Senior Member Steve Shaver's Avatar
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    I think any program can be modified for non collar/FF use.

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    OK, thanks MG. That's a shame. I'd love to see a bit more 'structure' in our training methods over here. We do all tackle the same things and get to the end goal eventually, but we just seem to be a lot less regimented in doing it!

    Oh, we bumble along............

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    Senior Member Colonel Blimp's Avatar
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    KM,

    One "programme" on a DVD is "The Wildrose Way", it's non collar or FF. I've used inverted commas because I don't see it as fully fledged; the basic obedience is very sketchy and IMO insufficient. However if you put basic OB into a puppy and followed Wildrose you'd get a decent hunting dog. If you care to drop me your postal address via PM you can borrow my copy.

    In general, all the published Carr based programmes can be used as way markers in non collar / FF training. Again if you want to have a butchers at one (Strawski) let me know. I thinks it's an awful piece of work with many faults, but the structure is the standard model.

    As to published works other than DVDs that lay down a plan, where to start? Susan Scales, Peter Moxon, Nigel Mann, Keith Erlandson, Eric Begbie, Vic Barlow, Ken Roebuck ...... that's just the first few on my top shelf!

    Eug
    Last edited by Colonel Blimp; 12-03-2013 at 08:14 AM.
    Thank you, very kind, Mine's a pint.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Blimp View Post
    KM,

    One "programme" on a DVD is "The Wildrose Way", it's non collar or FF. I've used inverted commas because I don't see it as fully fledged; the basic obedience is very sketchy and IMO insufficient. However if you put basic OB into a puppy and followed Wildrose you'd get a decent hunting dog. If you care to drop me your postal address via PM you can borrow my copy.

    In general, all the published Carr based programmes can be used as way markers in non collar / FF training.

    As to published works other than DVDs where to start? Susan Scales, Peter Moxon, Nigel Mann, Keith Erlandson, Eric Begbie, Vic Barlow ...... that's just the first few on my top shelf!

    Eug
    Thanks Eug, I've got the Wildrose (coffee table) book which has some methods and exercises similar to 'British' methods. I didn't know there was a DVD! Would be interested in a look thanks.

    I also have most of the books you mention, along with the odd DVD etc. But none of which are really a 'programme' and that is the difference to me in our methods. We tend to 'dip into' things, but don't rigidly follow any programme with any structure. Not saying that is right or wrong, just an observation that it is different.

    I'll look up Carr, not heard of that?

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    Senior Member Colonel Blimp's Avatar
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    Just about all the published collar / FF stuff from the US is based on the work of a bloke called Rex Carr.

    Eug
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    That would be Maj. Rex Carr to you, Colonel!

    km, as noted above, the force- and collar-based programs are adaptive and can be undertaken without force or collar. But I'm unaware of anyone who's achieved (N. American) competitive success going that route.

    Regimenting is a good way to go, though, and why I got into retrievers in the first place - love the training more than the trials. But what we're learning over here is that you can also customize the regimentation for other gundogs - HPRs and (retrieving) spaniels in particular. They do just fine on programs, with a soupcon of force and electricity, of course. Especially - since we're talking regimentation and majors and colonels - what Bill Meldrum's buddy Bob Gutermuth used to call "ye olde sergeant major's dog" the Sussex spaniel



    going through her paces going on 12 years now having been trained nonslip (via Mike Lardy's program).

    MG

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    Senior Member Jennifer Henion's Avatar
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    As someone who doesn't use the collar or force fetch on my current dog, I've found it necessary to use the "Hodgepodge" method. But it has been incredibly helpful to have the Mike Lardy TRT books and dvds as a backbone structure for my training plan. Thanks to the TRT materials and modifications, my dog got two Senior Hunt Test ribbons at 18 mos. We went a little down hill after that with our blinds, but she is back better than ever on the whistle and taking casts. It's a great program, but I think anyone not using the core force and compulsion methods will need to really watch the dog and change course here and there to get success.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer Henion View Post
    As someone who doesn't use the collar or force fetch on my current dog, I've found it necessary to use the "Hodgepodge" method. But it has been incredibly helpful to have the Mike Lardy TRT books and dvds as a backbone structure for my training plan. Thanks to the TRT materials and modifications, my dog got two Senior Hunt Test ribbons at 18 mos. We went a little down hill after that with our blinds, but she is back better than ever on the whistle and taking casts. It's a great program, but I think anyone not using the core force and compulsion methods will need to really watch the dog and change course here and there to get success.
    LOL Jennifer @ "hodgepodge" method. That's definitely what we use over here!!!.... maybe we do have a method/programme after all!?

    Thanks, that is interesting. And well done you!

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