I agree with you all !
For what it's worth KM ,and coming back to your original post. I believe we (uk) do have programs ,but probably better described as a 'Process' or 'Processes' that (we) as trainer/handlers follow,and if each part of the process is not completed then we don't proceed to the next Level.
So there is a Program! and it is usually unilateral following all the basics and yard work that is done on both sides of the pond and beyond!...For those that persue 'competition' This Process/Program takes off in a tangent to suit and follow the rules ,regulations and standards for the competitions We are involved with.
There are some dogs that just don't fit' into (our program/process) in the UK ! That's why there are so many moved on as 'Not suitable for trialling?,So (we) can't say that (we) have the breeding right!
There are also many in the US that are moved in the same fasion ,and that may be due to the 'program' that the dog is on with whatever handler?.
In the 35 years I have been involved with Retrievers ,I know one certain thing ''None of them get up in the morning and decide they are gonna get this drill wrong! and none of them get up in the morning and decide they are gonna get this drill right!''....
Over the last 5-6 years I have learned from friends/colleagues in the US to incorporate many of the practices in Retriever training which has helped me to become a more 'systematic' and precise handler,and I can assure our friends accross the water that there are CC and FF ,and FTP methods used for Retriever training in the UK. (we) just ain't got Swim By yet.Probably because It's not a priority ''Yet''?
KM ,I believe is a positive trainer but not the puritanical version that is normally associated with the term,but Positive in the way that if the dog is already doing what you want 'Then why tell it'. She also operates at the highest level of competition. Now I however have the enviable task of working with all them dogs and owners who get the 'NOT SO GOOD'
Like Chris said/quoted, Yea! , But there is common ground somewhere!? Jeezus! All mine are now cast off with a left hand! and they now do Right and left hand heeling!.....A few handlesrs I seen on the second day at The IGL Championships are doing the same
Now KM , You must come up here to the frozen tundra again,I know you like Scotland,lets do some training on straight line blinds across 5 bodies of water with a few distractions on the way
BTW, These Mericans are not all bad! They just shout alot!
One Shooter One Spaniel One Retriever
Polmaise - will take you up on that!! We'll be up again in 2014, hopefully at Toms. We can compare sendaways then!
Generalities are true, only until they aren't; Had 2 show type labs, fall out of a mini-van and stomp my test. Both with a much drive as any Field stock. I didn't think Tanks could move like that. One passed, One broke on honor, beat the working dog to the bird. I don't blame the working dog; it's pretty intimidating to have a Rhino charging at yah with a bird . Now is this the norm? Perhaps not, but I won't be telling that handler that her dogs are not suited to the task. (crow served and eaten )
Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 12-04-2013 at 03:06 PM.
"They's Just DAWGS"; "I train dogs, Not papers"
"Hunting is a skill to be learned whether you do it early or late it still needs to be learned"
GMRH-I HRCH Quick MH (most importantly Duck/Upland Enthusiast) Rip. July-2014
GMHR HRCH Lakota MH (most importantly Upland/Duck Enthusiast)
MHR HR Storm SH (Beginning Upland & Waterfowl Enthusiast)
In the UK ,Eric Begbie ''tried to do a spreadsheet thing'' that according to some was a bit clinical and never allowed for the indivisual, and the Gundog club uk tried to almost make thier so called program a 'patent' ?,which wanted money for a run down on yard drills that could be found in the childrens library section I hear?.
Opportunity exists for an experienced Collar trainer from the US To 'Show us the way'?
One Shooter One Spaniel One Retriever
Renee, it's true my dog does know that when I say "no" it means I want her to stop doing what she's doing. I've even said it pretty sternly at times when I catch her eating cat poop in the woods. But I've never hit her or paired the word "No" with any physical aversive, chase down or other such threat. There are other dogs at my kennel business who hear my stern "No" and could care less. Some dogs are more sensitive and responsive than others. Some are born to lead and others to follow. My current prospect (Flyer) is super sensitive and responsive. My older washout show golden (Buck) acts deaf if I want to redirect his behavior. Not very sensitive or responsive. I'm not a good enough trainer to make much out of Buck, but I think Flyer is going to help me quite a bit!
"Power is of two kinds. One is obtained through the fear of punishment and the other by acts of love. Power based on love is a thousand times more effective and permanent than the one derived from fear of punishment." Mahatma Gandhi