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Thread: Training Programmes? ...idle curiousity!

  1. #51
    Senior Member Golddogs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kennel maiden View Post
    Hunt'Em Up - the show and working labs in the UK are now so widely polarised they are almost two separate breeds! So, selective breeding really has taken it's toll. A few are trying for a 'dual purpose' lab again, but are not really attaining that goal. The last time there was a dual champion in this country for labs was half a century or more ago I believe? So, I don't agree a lab is a lab any more I am afraid. You couldn't take a UK show champion lab and put it into the field, and expect it to do anything purposeful. It would likely have a hard attack, and certainly wouldn't be jumping over anything. Likewise, some of our whippety, slim labs would just be laughed at in the show ring! So, I do believe we have moulded the breed for our own purposes. Otherwise we wouldn't all be seeking those special sires/dams to breed from. And the way you have moulded the breed for your game over there, I would contend, is somewhat different to how we are moulding the breed for our game over here. Of course it is. We are selecting the desirable traits for what we want in 'our' breed, be that looks, temperament or trainability...
    That is sad to hear. I thought only the US had messed that up!
    Never trust a dog to watch your food!

  2. #52
    Senior Member polmaise's Avatar
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    I agree with you all !
    For what it's worth KM ,and coming back to your original post. I believe we (uk) do have programs ,but probably better described as a 'Process' or 'Processes' that (we) as trainer/handlers follow,and if each part of the process is not completed then we don't proceed to the next Level.
    So there is a Program! and it is usually unilateral following all the basics and yard work that is done on both sides of the pond and beyond!...For those that persue 'competition' This Process/Program takes off in a tangent to suit and follow the rules ,regulations and standards for the competitions We are involved with.

    There are some dogs that just don't fit' into (our program/process) in the UK ! That's why there are so many moved on as 'Not suitable for trialling?,So (we) can't say that (we) have the breeding right!

    There are also many in the US that are moved in the same fasion ,and that may be due to the 'program' that the dog is on with whatever handler?.

    In the 35 years I have been involved with Retrievers ,I know one certain thing ''None of them get up in the morning and decide they are gonna get this drill wrong! and none of them get up in the morning and decide they are gonna get this drill right!''....

    Over the last 5-6 years I have learned from friends/colleagues in the US to incorporate many of the practices in Retriever training which has helped me to become a more 'systematic' and precise handler,and I can assure our friends accross the water that there are CC and FF ,and FTP methods used for Retriever training in the UK. (we) just ain't got Swim By yet.Probably because It's not a priority ''Yet''?

    KM ,I believe is a positive trainer but not the puritanical version that is normally associated with the term,but Positive in the way that if the dog is already doing what you want 'Then why tell it'. She also operates at the highest level of competition. Now I however have the enviable task of working with all them dogs and owners who get the 'NOT SO GOOD'

    Like Chris said/quoted, Yea! , But there is common ground somewhere!? Jeezus! All mine are now cast off with a left hand! and they now do Right and left hand heeling!.....A few handlesrs I seen on the second day at The IGL Championships are doing the same

    Now KM , You must come up here to the frozen tundra again,I know you like Scotland,lets do some training on straight line blinds across 5 bodies of water with a few distractions on the way
    BTW, These Mericans are not all bad! They just shout alot!
    One Shooter One Spaniel One Retriever

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitty View Post
    I call B.S. Your dog has figured out how to read you. She does not instinctively know that a harsh voice means she is wrong. You have taught her what your body language and tone of voice mean.
    Wow Renee, you really are the dog guru. I bow down to your superior knowledge - just your diplomacy is a little lacking!

  4. #54
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    Polmaise - will take you up on that!! We'll be up again in 2014, hopefully at Toms. We can compare sendaways then!

  5. #55
    Senior Member polmaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kennel maiden View Post
    Polmaise - will take you up on that!! We'll be up again in 2014, hopefully at Toms. We can compare sendaways then!
    Look forward to it, Tom makes crap Tea,and he needs a new pair of legs.
    One Shooter One Spaniel One Retriever

  6. #56
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kennel maiden View Post
    Hunt'Em Up - the show and working labs in the UK are now so widely polarised they are almost two separate breeds!.
    Welp with that stand point the only solution is to split your breed, Make you some U.K. Gentleman hunter Dogs, close your books to only a select group of field labs, those running & succeeding in the trials you choose. Throw out the majority of Labrador populations; the Show, the true working labs (seeing eye, detection, SAR), the Pets, the fanciers moving blood Internationally. It's only with closed books, and successive generations of off-spring; that you'll have solid proof of a different type of dog with different and defined characteristics. Until then blood and genes from the overall Labrador population will still go in and out, those pesky pets and working dogs will continue to cross the field and show lines back and forth. Until there's a definite split; A Lab is a Lab, out of the same foundation stock, anything can be crossed to anything, it'll still be registered as a Labrador. Myself I prefer not to trade in generalities; I'll just do what I've always done take an 8wk-6mt pup, train it for it's owner wants-needs (hunting, trials, therapy, SAR, what-have you), and actually see what it can do. I can't say I'm a fan of a big-ole show CH that comes out and tries to prove his field instinct by running working certificate, who at 4-5 yrs. old hasn't done anything but prance in a ring. However I've learned not to tell people, what their dog can and can't do, and I definitely won't say anything about any puppy's (out of any lines) potential. You start saying such to certain people and they make it their mission to show up at your trial and serve you a nice plate of crow.

    Generalities are true, only until they aren't; Had 2 show type labs, fall out of a mini-van and stomp my test. Both with a much drive as any Field stock. I didn't think Tanks could move like that. One passed, One broke on honor, beat the working dog to the bird. I don't blame the working dog; it's pretty intimidating to have a Rhino charging at yah with a bird . Now is this the norm? Perhaps not, but I won't be telling that handler that her dogs are not suited to the task. (crow served and eaten )
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 12-04-2013 at 03:06 PM.
    "They's Just DAWGS"
    "Hunting is a skill to be learned whether you do it early or late it still needs to be learned"
    "I train dogs, Not papers"

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  7. #57
    Senior Member polmaise's Avatar
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    In the UK ,Eric Begbie ''tried to do a spreadsheet thing'' that according to some was a bit clinical and never allowed for the indivisual, and the Gundog club uk tried to almost make thier so called program a 'patent' ?,which wanted money for a run down on yard drills that could be found in the childrens library section I hear?.

    Opportunity exists for an experienced Collar trainer from the US To 'Show us the way'?
    One Shooter One Spaniel One Retriever

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by polmaise View Post
    In the UK ,Eric Begbie ''tried to do a spreadsheet thing'' that according to some was a bit clinical and never allowed for the indivisual, and the Gundog club uk tried to almost make thier so called program a 'patent' ?,which wanted money for a run down on yard drills that could be found in the childrens library section I hear?.

    Opportunity exists for an experienced Collar trainer from the US To 'Show us the way'?
    Didn't we export one a while back?!.... Comes back here periodically to supply commentary at the Home International.

  9. #59
    Senior Member polmaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kennel maiden View Post
    Didn't we export one a while back?!.... Comes back here periodically to supply commentary at the Home International.
    Ahh!! but he has been 'Americanised' lol ..He did do a 'so -called ' collar roadshow ! , but it was just with his mates and had a good time with expenses
    He knows I'm having a larf!
    One Shooter One Spaniel One Retriever

  10. #60
    Senior Member Jennifer Henion's Avatar
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    Renee, it's true my dog does know that when I say "no" it means I want her to stop doing what she's doing. I've even said it pretty sternly at times when I catch her eating cat poop in the woods. But I've never hit her or paired the word "No" with any physical aversive, chase down or other such threat. There are other dogs at my kennel business who hear my stern "No" and could care less. Some dogs are more sensitive and responsive than others. Some are born to lead and others to follow. My current prospect (Flyer) is super sensitive and responsive. My older washout show golden (Buck) acts deaf if I want to redirect his behavior. Not very sensitive or responsive. I'm not a good enough trainer to make much out of Buck, but I think Flyer is going to help me quite a bit!

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