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Thread: Training Programmes? ...idle curiousity!

  1. #81
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    Kennel maiden explained to me in a PM that the electric collar is illegal in much of the UK and I suppose that for similar reasons there is huge opprobrium heaped upon anyone who uses the collar or even speaks the "e-word" in polite company in that part of the world. This all seems really silly to an American for two reasons.

    First (and if you think about it, we could probably all agree on this one): The way the e-collar is used today (and I'm thinking of Hillman's system) the stimulation is almost imperceptible. That being the case, there is scant difference between the tactile buzz of the e-collar and the auditory sound of a clicker or even the verbal "atta dog". The advantage of the collar over a clicker and an "atta boy" is that at a distance, the timing of the stimulation is instantaneous and all things auditory are delayed sufficiently to distort their usefulness beyond even 50 yards/meters or so. In fact, poor timing on an auditory stimulus can screw the dog up. It's not neutral, it's detrimental.

    Second (and this one will probably be divisive and I apologize in advance) making something like this illegal is so irritating for Americans. The "nanny-state-ism" that punishes the whole group for the stupidity of the minority of idiots that abuse something or just have rotten manners is just... wrong. Abusing dogs is evil. Make that illegal and enforce it vigorously. The e-collar is a tool. Nothing more or less.

    (I've been in some serious pain today that renders me cranky and intolerant, and I've taken an opiate which disables most of my edit function. So please forgive if I've offended. I'm really not a butt-head ordinarily.)

  2. #82
    Senior Member Colonel Blimp's Avatar
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    Kennel maiden explained to me in a PM that the electric collar is illegal in much of the UK
    That may be a misinterpretation.The use of e-collars is unlawful in Wales where I live; there are regular calls for them to be banned elsewhere, but thus far their use is still lawful in England, Scotland and N Ireland. They are used, but not widely in my experience and not as a regular part of training; more a trash breaking role. I'm not in the mainstream as much as I once was so things may have changed since I was alive.

    In the instances that I've witnessed of their use over here the results were uniformly hopeless; the people didn't have a clue how to use them and the dogs remained the unruly noisy brutes they always were. Mind you I've seen someone bugger up a dog using clicker, so I guess it's true, "You can't cure stupid".

    BTW population of England / Scotland / NI = 60 million; population of Wales = 3 million.

    Eug
    Last edited by Colonel Blimp; 12-08-2013 at 04:58 AM.
    Thank you, very kind, Mine's a pint.

  3. #83
    Senior Member polmaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Blimp View Post
    "You can't cure stupid".

    BTW population of England / Scotland / NI = 60 million; population of Wales = 3 million.

    Eug
    There is a place in England where 3 million are stupid Eug and a place in Wales where none of them are
    One Shooter One Spaniel One Retriever

  4. #84
    Senior Member polmaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Blimp View Post
    "You can't cure stupid".

    BTW population of England / Scotland / NI = 60 million; population of Wales = 3 million.

    Eug
    There is a place in England where 3 million are stupid Eug and a place in Wales where none of them are
    One Shooter One Spaniel One Retriever

  5. #85
    Senior Member TexGold's Avatar
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    While it's not really a program, some of the old Bill Tarrant books present a non-collar system. Worth looking at.
    "When a man is proud of his dog and shows it, I like him. When his dog is proud of him and shows it, I deeply respect him. Gene Hill

  6. #86
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    Default training programs

    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Blimp View Post
    That may be a misinterpretation.The use of e-collars is unlawful in Wales where I live; there are regular calls for them to be banned elsewhere, but thus far their use is still lawful in England, Scotland and N Ireland. They are used, but not widely in my experience and not as a regular part of training; more a trash breaking role. I'm not in the mainstream as much as I once was so things may have changed since I was alive.

    In the instances that I've witnessed of their use over here the results were uniformly hopeless; the people didn't have a clue how to use them and the dogs remained the unruly noisy brutes they always were. Mind you I've seen someone bugger up a dog using clicker, so I guess it's true, "You can't cure stupid".

    BTW population of England / Scotland / NI = 60 million; population of Wales = 3 million.

    Eug
    That is basically how the collar was used here in the beginning ... A punishment tool...The programs of today are far more kinder and gentler now than then ... A whole different concept of use...by most....Steve S
    "Your dog learns as much by doing his work right,by your praise and encouragement, as he does by your displeasure and correction." DLWalters

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