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Thread: Breeding ??

  1. #11
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firehouselabs View Post
    Breed your dog even once- whether by accident or purpose, male or female, and you ARE a breeder. As such, you have to be prepared for getting "stuck" with pups, sometimes for months. You should also be prepared for when your buyers want to return an older and potentially unruly dog due to lack of time, effort, or caring on their part. Then you have to decide whether or not to warranty the litter on hips, elbows, and eyes, and what to do as far as reimbursing the buyer if their pup doesn't pass these tests-which means saving back quite a bit of money for up to 2 1/2 yrs. You should also start saving now for possible emergency situations, such as a C-section, and for the incidental stuff such as dew claw removal, worming medicine, shots, and vet visits for the litter. Do you have the supplies on hand to whelp/raise the litter? You have to think about the logistics of having up to a dozen or a couple more of active, noisy, always hungry, poop shooters. Depending on the timing of the litter and your location/weather, this could mean inside your house. Do you have a well fenced (as in puppy proofed) backyard? Because letting out a litter of pups to potty is a lesson in insanity as you try to keep them corralled in your yard and out of the street or neighbors yard. Do you have a great vet that you can call and will drop everything to meet you at the clinic? Even on a late Sunday night? Hopefully you won't need to make that call, but you should have a number programed into your phone just in case.

    As far as the studs available: Get a list of what's available. Then take a hard look at what your female lacks and that you want to improve, and there will be some as no dog is perfect, but as a breeder it is your job to improve on what you have so that you are benefiting the breed (notice that I didn't say "bettering the breed", as there is nothing wrong with the breed standard). Research the stud dogs on your list, matching as many of the good qualities, while also making sure that they do not have any of the same negative traits as your female. It is still a crap shoot, but the odds are better and you will at least have the satisfaction of knowing that you did what you could to produce a healthy and happy litter.

    Once that is done, steal your heart for the worst possible event: losing the female and/or the litter. It happens. More frequently than many would expect even. Other scenarios could be having a single-ton litter. Upside-you got your pup! Downside-you could have bought a pup for probably a third of what this one will cost you, and you didn't even get a choice as to which pup you want. The female could die, leaving you with ten pups to bottle feed every 2-3 hours (which will take you approximately 1 1/2 hrs to feed, than stimulate to poop, plus cleaning the nipples, bottles, making more formula, etc..) which means absolutely no sleep for at least 2- 2 1/2 weeks. Can you leave your job for that long? Do you have reliable help? Do you have the fortitude to put in all the hours and money (you will go through a ton of formula, plus the supplies, and extra vet visits!) only to have some or all the pups die despite your best efforts.

    If you think that I am trying to talk you out of breeding your female, I'm not. But I would rather know that you are a well prepared for the breeding BEFORE it takes place so that in 2-3 months we will not be hearing about a tragic end to this story. Most people do not realize the enormous expense in money, time, and work that producing a litter costs. Unfortunately, often when saddled with such expenses, those leftover pups get dumped into inappropriate homes just to "get rid of them", often with the breeder washing their hands of the pups afterwards. Sometimes pups are dumped off at a shelter, or rescue, or even out in the country. Stress makes people do stupid things, and nothing says "stress" like trying to raise a litter of pups!

    If you have been on this site for any time at all, you should also note that the people on here will not buy a pup based on the pedigree, health, or titles of the stud dog alone. And your buyers will not be seeing the stud dog when they pick their pups, just your female. So while you may clearly desire to have a pup that is out of your girl, people who have not seen your girl at her best may not. After whelping and rearing a litter of pups, she may not be in the greatest of condition, and her temperament may take a turn for the worst as she will probably be protective of her pups. Just something to think about.

    Good luck with your search for the best stud dog, keep us updated on what you decide!
    Accurate and well stated.

  2. #12
    Senior Member 2tall's Avatar
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    If someone is "not a breeder" why would they go through all this???? I for one am very grateful for the serious and responsible breeders out there because I know I could never do it. There are so many wonderful possibilities out there, don't risk your dog or a litter of pups. I love all three of my dogs, but none are so perfect that I have to have his offspring. My cost will be less buying an FCxFC than what I could incur with breeding my own.
    Carol,
    Owned and handled by Cruisin' with Indiana Jones, JH
    Alternate Handler: Westwind Buffalo Soldier
    Apprentice Handler: Snake River Medicine Man, JH
    http://newhoperetrievers.com

  3. #13
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    There are also some pretty nice QAA/MH studs as well as GRHRCH that may fit the bill. If I was doing a litter and concerned about selling the pups, I would consider at what price seems to sell the best. I think alot more people willing to spend $700 vs. $1500. I've had a dog out of Three Rivers Set the Hook "Berkley". QAA and a MH with a darn nice pedigree. Would take another Berkley pup in a heart beat.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2tall View Post
    If someone is "not a breeder" why would they go through all this???? I for one am very grateful for the serious and responsible breeders out there because I know I could never do it. There are so many wonderful possibilities out there, don't risk your dog or a litter of pups. I love all three of my dogs, but none are so perfect that I have to have his offspring. My cost will be less buying an FCxFC than what I could incur with breeding my own.
    What? ..........

  5. #15
    Senior Member sunnydee's Avatar
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    Just a year and a half ago I was in the same situation that you are in now. I was lucky enough to get an exceptional dog for my first lab and we have accomplished more then I ever thought possible and we aren’t done yet. I decided that I just had to have one of her offspring’s so I bred her to one of the top stud dogs in the nation (Grady). Before it was all said and done I spent over $5,000 on just the breeding alone, stud fee, vet bills, etc, etc. etc. Because my female is yellow and Grady is yellow factor I was hoping to get a nice variety of color and sex. As soon as I put the word out to friends and training partners that the pregnancy was confirmed I got 6 deposits along with a request for a certain sex and or color. Because it is truly a crap shoot, I had to returned three of the deposits because she didn’t deliver the right color or sex and for personal reasons. Then came the birthing and even though I read every thing I could on the subject I was still completely over whelmed. I slept very little the first 36 hours before the first puppy was born, my oldest daughter came over to help me and said that she had never seen me look so raddled and helpless. It took me awhile to find homes for the last two pups and I let them go at a reduced price. Am I glad I did it, ABSOLUTELY, the pup I kept for myself is everything that I had hoped for and I am hoping to do great things with him. Would I do it again, probably not, it was a bitch!!!!
    Terry C.

    You can't win if you don't play, every dog has his day

    Sunny Dee Light MH QAA (Sunny)
    Sunny's Black Gold Texas Tea, Derby Dog (Crude)

  6. #16

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    Devil and Tiger. Devil has sired a respectable number of pups that have competed in the nationals.
    El Matavenados
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    Creamlevel's Shock and Awe "Boomer"

  7. #17
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    If you crossing in black, with chocolate hard to do better than the Barracuda Blue line, it's produced; Four generations of chocolate FC-AFC-MH; I'm sure some black pups must've fallen out of that line somewhere, FC-AFC Moda (black) and Pirate (black), Blue-Ryder, Drake, Roux, Ammo (chocolate); I know there are GRHRCH, QAA, and MH out of that line as well. (The blacks are out there; they just probably don't admit to being half chocolate )
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 12-13-2013 at 03:18 PM.
    "They's Just DAWGS"
    "Hunting is a skill to be learned whether you do it early or late it still needs to be learned"
    "I train dogs, Not papers"

    GMRH HRCH Quick MH (most importantly Duck/Upland Enthusiast)
    MHR HRCH Lakota MH (most importantly Upland/Duck Enthusiast)
    SHR Storm.. the Pup (Beginning Upland & Waterfowl Enthusiast)

  8. #18
    Member Brian Welch's Avatar
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    I wasn't aware devil had any straws left. With that said, I would highly recommend running with the devil. He is my dogs grand sir and when I compare pics of the two they look identical. The way running with the devil is talked about on his web site also describes my dog to a T. Two thumbs up for devil.
    HRCH "Kennedy" MH

  9. #19
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    Some of what I have found using find retrievers, hunting retriever pedigrees, e express, retriever results, and other sources. I also have a nice chocolate bitch that in the next two years I would like to possible breed. She's eic and cnm clear, so carriers are not a factor in ruling any dog out. Plus pedigree and other factors, what works for me might not work for you.
    blacks that throw choc
    1 tiger mcbunn (bcy) 41% of pups running aa ft's since 04 have points according to retriever results and my calc
    2 high tech ceo (bc) 39%
    3 running with the devil (bc) 42%
    other blks
    pirate bc, nafc fc barton creeks o mustad bc, howdy bc, fc afc Carolinas smoke on the water bc, cnafc fc afc aces high III bc, fc afc whitie bc, and nafc fc gusto's last control byc
    If you go to FindRetrievers.com where it ask for color click black (chocolate factored), then click on Labrador retrieves in breed section, then search, if you want titled ones in the name at top put in fc will give you all afc's and fc's do the same for blacks (chocolate and yellow) factored. You can also do chocolates. Not all are on there but it will give you a good list to start with.
    Chocolates fc afc
    1 nfc afc storm's riptide star 50% hard to gauge actua,l so many offspring before 2004, did sire a cnafc
    1 fc afc wing magics Louisiana roux 33% eic carrier, sired ammo and a number of other pointed aa dogs
    2 fc afc barracuda blue mh
    2 fc afc cuda blue ryder mh
    others
    afc brink's barracuda blue, fc afc rebel ridge cosmic rise n fall, fc Nan-dool elwood blues, fc afc way-da-go call of the wild,
    Good Luck

  10. #20
    Senior Member Sharon Potter's Avatar
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    I'd take a good look at FC-AFC Wing Magic's Louisiana Roux. Heck of a nice dog, and is siring well.
    Sharon Potter

    www.redbranchkennels.net

    Chesapeake Bay Retrievers...too many to list.

    Team Huntsmith

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