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Thread: Sen. Paul Rand Rep ??

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampcollielover View Post
    MJH - show me a politician and I will show you a person who will eventually vote their personal beliefs as opposed to their parties platform! That is why term limits and voting people out in the primaries is in process....we just have to get off our rears and make this the norm and not the exception! If you do not represent what I believe when elected, I will work to get you unelected! It is not the politicians it the voters that got us where we are today....and for third parties, they only help the underdog of the two major parties win elections.
    Swamp, I only differ with you on this; "will eventually vote their personal beliefs" and would say it is actually what their lobbyists tell them to vote

  2. #22
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampcollielover View Post
    Franco, generalizing about specific candidates does not define the Tea Party! What are you talking about when you say, "They[Tea Party] are all about their style of big intrusive government" talk about a convoluted mind... and I have some news for you, Tea Party Candidates have already "Made It" on the National Stage, or did you miss the 2010 election? How many Libertarians in in the U. S. Congress? Just sayin....
    Generalizing? Are you denying that the Teas threw their support behind Santorum with Gingrich as thier second choice? Tea Party candidates have made it? Looks to me like they took it in the shorts in 2012. National Stage? The Libertarian Party was revived just 5 years ago from near death by Dr Ron Paul. Today, we have over 500 campus chapters, more than the Dems and Repubs combined. We attract real Liberty minded folks from all walks of life; white, Asian, Black, young and former Repubs/Dems. The vast majority of the Teas are older white.

    Hard to take the Teas seriously with Palin and Bachman as their spokespersons.

    Curious as to what the Teas think of Pres. GW Bush, was he a RINO?

    Do you deny that Evangelicals are the force within the Teas? I rest my case!
    Last edited by Franco; 12-10-2013 at 09:33 PM.
    The Libertarian Party believes that all persons are entitled to keep the fruits of their labor. A call for the repeal of the income tax, abolishment of the Internal Revenue Service and all federal programs and services not required under the U.S. Constitution. We support the passage of a "Balanced Budget Amendment" to the U.S. Constitution, provided that the budget is balanced exclusively by cutting expenditures, and not by raising taxes. LP.org

  3. #23
    Senior Member swampcollielover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    Generalizing? Are you denying that the Teas threw their support behind Santorum with Gingrich as thier second choice? Tea Party candidates have made it? Looks to me like they took it in the shorts in 2012. National Stage? The Libertarian Party was revived just 5 years ago from near death by Dr Ron Paul. Today, we have over 500 campus chapters, more than the Dems and Repubs combined. We attract real Liberty minded folks from all walks of life; white, Asian, Black, young and former Repubs/Dems. The vast majority of the Teas are older white.

    If Libertarians were to ever get a real candidate in a national Congressional race you would find that when the final group of candidates are put in place, they may not meet all of your Libertarians beliefs/ on top of that the National Media will make them into something they are not. Above you talk more about all the Libertarian activities, but still no legitimate Congressional candidates? Come back when you get in the game!

    Hard to take the Teas seriously with Palin and Bachman as their spokespersons. Hard to take the Libertarian's serious...ever!

    Curious as to what the Teas think of Pres. GW Bush, was he a RINO? He was in office before the Tea Party formed....irrelevant
    Do you deny that Evangelicals are the force within the Teas? I rest my case!
    YES, but do you have a problem with Christians?

  4. #24
    Senior Member swampcollielover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjh345 View Post
    Swamp, I only differ with you on this; "will eventually vote their personal beliefs" and would say it is actually what their lobbyists tell them to vote
    I agree as long as you include the Unions in these "lobbyist", including Federal and State Governmental Unions, which after all are the largest lobbyist in the country!

  5. #25
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Well Swamp, you just proved my point. The Teas are about Social issues while Spending/Budgets is just a mere smoke screen as evident by who they have supported in the past! Evident in not only who they have supported but also in their proposed Legislation. The Teas on the Hill have tried to pass more anti-Abortion bills than curtail out of control spending. I haven't a problem with Christians but, I do support Separation of Church from State. The Teas do not pass muster in regards to being Deficit/Debt hawks.

    Real candidates? We have them but the Repubs and Dems are working hard to keep them off of ballots and debates with their media in tow! Right now, it is a two Party monopoly. However, that will change as more voters become disenfranchised with the Dems and Repubs.

    Also, great job of dodging the GW Bush question. For your edification, the term RINO has been around long before the Teas. How did the Teas vote yesterday on raising taxes and raising spending? Warning; this is a trap question. I haven't heard much opposition from them! The only self-proclaimed Libertarian, Rep Justin Amash(R) of Michigan voted against them.

    If you want real reform, then you have to elect the real reformers and that is not the Teas! The Teas are more interested in their Social issues, proof is in the performance. And, that performance has had a negative effect hurting the Repub Party nationally. I am thankful too that we have educated people speaking for our Party like Carla Howell, Gary Johnson & Justin Amash instead of Palin and Bachmann.
    Last edited by Franco; 12-11-2013 at 03:18 PM.
    The Libertarian Party believes that all persons are entitled to keep the fruits of their labor. A call for the repeal of the income tax, abolishment of the Internal Revenue Service and all federal programs and services not required under the U.S. Constitution. We support the passage of a "Balanced Budget Amendment" to the U.S. Constitution, provided that the budget is balanced exclusively by cutting expenditures, and not by raising taxes. LP.org

  6. #26
    Senior Member swampcollielover's Avatar
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    Franco...you make this so easy!
    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    Well Swamp, you just proved my point. The Teas are about Social issues while Spending/Budgets is just a mere smoke screen as evident by who they have supported in the past! Evident in not only who they have supported but also in their proposed Legislation. The Teas on the Hill have tried to pass more anti-Abortion bills than curtail out of control spending. I haven't a problem with Christians but, I do support Separation of Church from State. The Teas do not pass muster in regards to being Deficit/Debt hawks. The Tea Party Platform excludes Social Issues, the candidates we endorce may or may not be 100% in line with our platform, those that have the best package get our support! Paint them as you will, that is how it works. Separation of Church and State is a "Liberal Talking Point"...was only mentioned in the Federalist Papers, not in our Constitution or any other legal document. When all Federal building, coins, historical documents include references to God this discussion is always just a talking point. Contrary to your comments, the Tea Party Candidates do pass muster when compared to all others in Congress!

    Real candidates? We have them but the Repubs and Dems are working hard to keep them off of ballots and debates with their media in tow! Right now, it is a two Party monopoly. However, that will change as more voters become disenfranchised with the Dems and Repubs. Monopoly by definition means only one?!! So you kind of lost it their. If the "Libers" are ever going to play with the big boys, they will have to win these wars, just like the Tea Party Candidates have had to do to get elected.

    Also, great job of dodging the GW Bush question. For your edification, the term RINO has been around long before the Teas. How did the Teas vote yesterday on raising taxes and raising spending? Warning; this is a trap question. I haven't heard much opposition from them! The only self-proclaimed Libertarian, Rep Justin Amash(R) of Michigan voted against them. I stand on my comments regarding President Bush! As for the current budget debacal...it isn't over till the fat lady sings.....

    If you want real reform, then you have to elect the real reformers and that is not the Teas! The Teas are more interested in their Social issues, proof is in the performance. And, that performance has had a negative effect hurting the Repub Party nationally. I am thankful too that we have educated people speaking for our Party like Carla Howell, Gary Johnson & Justin Amash instead of Palin and Bachmann.
    Seems odd a Liber would be critical of these candidates when the only Liber that made it into Congress was a flaming nut case MD and all! Kinda like the 'kettle calling the Tea Pot black'

  7. #27
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampcollielover View Post
    Franco...you make this so easy!
    Seems odd a Liber would be critical of these candidates when the only Liber that made it into Congress was a flaming nut case MD and all! Kinda like the 'kettle calling the Tea Pot black'
    Your recall of History is poor at best.

    Santorum and Gingrich were the best package? Laughable! One wants to ban all birth control and the other had no problem raiding Social Security in the 1990's to balance the budget!

    Had Jefferson not been serving in France as our Ambassador during the writing of The Constitution, Separation of Church FROM State would have been in it. Remember, Jefferson was not a Christian, he was a Deist. In fact, he admonished the writers for leaving it out! And, when Pres. Eisenhower adder "In God We Trust" to our currency in 1955, that was a direct attack at what this country was founded on, Freedom Of Religion". That why the earlier settlers migrated here.

    Oh, and if it wasn't for Dr Ron Paul, the Teas wouldn't know what to say and we all know the Teas can't take the Liberty conversation beyond talking points. It is Dr Paul that has been talking about government too big, out of control spending, failed Monetary and Foreign policies and loss of Liberties for over 25 years!.

    Where were the Teas when Bush was running up a 10 TRILLION plus Debt? Nowhere! They didn't get all huffy and puffy until a black man was elected President!

    You didn't make a comment on Pres Bush so how can you stand on your comment? You dodge the question because under your definition, Bush would be a RINO and you didn't want to admit it.
    Last edited by Franco; 12-12-2013 at 03:27 PM.
    The Libertarian Party believes that all persons are entitled to keep the fruits of their labor. A call for the repeal of the income tax, abolishment of the Internal Revenue Service and all federal programs and services not required under the U.S. Constitution. We support the passage of a "Balanced Budget Amendment" to the U.S. Constitution, provided that the budget is balanced exclusively by cutting expenditures, and not by raising taxes. LP.org

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    And, when Pres. Eisenhower adder "In God We Trust" to our currency in 1955, that was a direct attack at what this country was founded on, Freedom Of Religion". That why the earlier settlers migrated here.

    it.
    Also on Ike's watch:


    Between 1924 and 1954, the Pledge of Allegiance was worded:
    "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands; one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
    In 1954, during the McCarthy era and communism scare, Congress passed a bill, which was signed into law, to add the words "under God." The current Pledge reads:
    "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands; one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."



    Never trust a dog to watch your food!

  9. #29
    Senior Member swampcollielover's Avatar
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    Franco....I hope others are enjoying this as much as I am...

    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    Your recall of History is poor at best.

    Santorum and Gingrich were the best package? Laughable! One wants to ban all birth control and the other had no problem raiding Social Security in the 1990's to balance the budget! Gingrich was one of the best "Speakers" in history....and probably more important they both were elected into Congress, unlike almost all Libertarians (except the squeaky Dr.) Let the historical outcomes of our voters be the judge...as opposed to your opinion!

    Had Jefferson not been serving in France as our Ambassador during the writing of The Constitution, Separation of Church FROM State would have been in it. Remember, Jefferson was not a Christian, he was a Deist. In fact, he admonished the writers for leaving it out!

    ...Not all historians agree with you...
    “President Thomas Jefferson was a Protestant. Jefferson was raised as an Episcopalian (Anglican). He was also influenced by English Deists and has often been identified by historians as a Deist.From: Rick Shenkman, "An Interview with Jon Butler ... Was America Founded as a Christian Nation?", posted 20 December 2004 on History News Network website (http://hnn.us/articles/9144.html; viewed 30 November 2005): "In a practical sense, classifying Jefferson as a "Deist" with regards to religious affiliation is misleading and meaningless. Jefferson was never affiliated with any organized Deist movement." (IBID)...Regardless...bottom line he did sign the U. S. Constitution....without this language!

    when Pres. Eisenhower adder "In God We Trust" to our currency in 1955, that was a direct attack at what this country was founded on, Freedom Of Religion". That why the earlier settlers migrated here.

    Jefferson's focus was on Government not having a state religion at the Federal level, talking about "God" has nothing to do with having a state religion, unless you consider atheism a religion.

    Oh, and if it wasn't for Dr Ron Paul, the Teas wouldn't know what to say and we all know the Teas can't take the Liberty conversation beyond talking points. It is Dr Paul that has been talking about government too big, out of control spending, failed Monetary and Foreign policies and loss of Liberties for over 25 years!. I am not sure if he started all of this thinking, or if he took it from others, probably some of both...I do not take issue with much of what Ron Paul believes in, and he seems to be an honorable man, but he just is not a leader and has only served to take conservative thinking people and lead them away from stopping the Marxists Libs leading our nation. That I cannot forgive...

    Where were the Teas when Bush was running up a 10 TRILLION plus Debt? Nowhere! They didn't get all huffy and puffy until a black man was elected President!

    Again the Tea Party was formed after Bush was done serving his last term! The Tea Party is comprised of Republicans, Democrats, Independents, and Libertarians who are fed up with the poor job the Republican Party has been doing. It is not a Party, it is a movement with 55 members currently serving terms in Congress...not bad with only two elections under our belt....Bush, did a number of things that qualify him as a RINO, but her also provided inspired leadership at a time when your country needed it most, thank God the Dem's were not in charge during 9/11 and the years following....that would have been a real OMG moment!

    You didn't make a comment on Pres Bush so how can you stand on your comment? You dodge the question because under your definition, Bush would be a RINO and you didn't want to admit it.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Swamp,

    You may not be aware of the fact that Social Security is our nation's largest Debt Holder thanks to Newt and Clinton. You may be OK with that but, as far as I am concerned, he stole the people's money and all politicians that approved the raid of SS to balance the budget should be serving hard time in jail! The Teas may think Newt an angel, I think he is a criminal!

    I don't need any Historians to tell me what Jefferson believed. I have read Jefferson's Bible. He refers to Jesus as the Rabbi and he doesn't refer to any god is his Bible nor did Jefferson think Jesus was a son of any god.

    Ron Paul realized the Repub Party is done, fini. He has started a political movement that has capture the imagination of millions. People disenfranchised by both parties that would never identify with the Repubs or Dems. Libertarians appeal is with the college students of all colors and the 30 something year olds of all colors who are Fiscally Conservative and Socially tolerant. Beliefs the Teas do not offer nor the Dems or Repubs. All the Teas are doing is fracturing the current GOP and handing over Federal elections to the Dems. The Libertarians offer the future!
    The Libertarian Party believes that all persons are entitled to keep the fruits of their labor. A call for the repeal of the income tax, abolishment of the Internal Revenue Service and all federal programs and services not required under the U.S. Constitution. We support the passage of a "Balanced Budget Amendment" to the U.S. Constitution, provided that the budget is balanced exclusively by cutting expenditures, and not by raising taxes. LP.org

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