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Thread: Will the EIC ignorance have a major negative impact?

  1. #1
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    Default Will the EIC ignorance have a major negative impact?

    Will the EIC ignorance have a major negative impact on the breed for the future of Field Trials and Hunt Tests? Over the past few years several people stated they felt the ignorance regarding EIC carrier status was getting better. In my experience, I feel it is getting much worse. I am grateful there is a test for CNM and EIC to prevent affecteds. Since the CNM and EIC tests came out, many outstanding studs being used and starting to show promise of being good producers came to a screeching halt for breeding. Many top performers are hardly being bred simply because of carrier status… I am one of the few breeders who breed clear females to carrier studs. Simple reason, I want to produce quality, not catering to the ignorant! I fear too many breeders are not doing their homework and settling on convenience. The majority of the best performers and producers are carriers. If we are eliminating our best performers and producers we are not improving the breed!

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    Senior Member labsforme's Avatar
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    In some ways yes because of the uninformed. I bought an EIC carrier pup because of the breeding.She has finished 50% of the derbies she ran. It's too bad when you don't see fantastic dogs being bred because they are a carrier. I bred clear to clear because of marketablility.It was still a wonderful breeding. The next breeding may be to a carrier ( may be to CNFC,CNAFC stud).I have an EIC affected at home that will be 12.So no predjudice here.
    BTW congratulations on Lexie. I have watched her run a few times here in the Pac NW. She's special. I also watched Willie back in the day too.
    Last edited by labsforme; 12-10-2013 at 02:32 PM.
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    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
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    I think there may have been and may still be an overreaction--certainly on every thread it comes up many folks here say that they would only get a clear. That is silly to me, but it is their dog.

    Logically, if the better performers and producers are being ignored by some breeders because they are carriers yet some smart breeders, like yourself, are using them, then the results will eventually be seen in the placements. If so, I think the trend will change quickly.

    I have no idea if what you say is true or not--most folks I know would be happy with a carrier. As one who doesn't have access to the top breedings, if a really good one came up and someone said I could have one if I took a carrier, I would be all over it.

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    Senior Member TIM DOANE's Avatar
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    As a breeder I try to keep only clear bitches so that I can breed to whatever stud I choose. We have gone to carrier males for our last 2 breeding's. We sell most of our pups as gun dogs and some ht dogs. Our buyers don't have a problem buying a carrier pup at all.
    Tim Doane , Kingseed Kennels
    GRHRCH UH Hunters Marsh King Elijah MNH QAA "Ely"
    GRHRCH Kingseeds Little Miss Dangerous MNH QAA " Stella "
    HRCH Kingseeds Queen Of Grace MH " Hannah "
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    www.kingseedkennels.com

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    Senior Member duk4me's Avatar
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    Sometimes public opinion takes a while to overcome. There will be a time when a male carrier is the sire of a champion or two and the public opinion will change. I for one was misinformed at the beginning of EIC confirmation but have since changed my opinion. Proof is I purchased a clear sire to a carrier bitch and am comfortable with that decision. Once tested and if my female proves to be satisfactory I would have no problem breeding her to the right carrier is she is clear.

    BTW sire of a NFC or two.
    I have learned I need these dogs much more than they need me. Tim Bockmon

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    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Interesting thread, I'd like to add to the discussion by asking. What affect testing litters and allowing buyers the option of picking clear or carrier pups out of breedings, is having on this anti-carrier push. I myself refuse to test my litters, I setup my breedings to produce the whole dog, and while guaranteeing an unaffected puppy, I don't like the idea that the most talented pups might be discounted before they ever see a bird. I've had many buyers gawk at this but if the breeding isn't good enough that you'd want a pup regardless of one gene, I'm not doing my job as a breeder, and if that's stopping point for a buyer, they are not the type of buyer I need for one of my pups. I have two pups right now, just turned 1yr. they are doing well, I have no idea of their EIC status, 50% either way, but they are both the type of dog I want, they'll both be train and ran, and later on if worthy they might be bred, regardless of whether they turn out carrier or not.
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    Senior Member BlaineT's Avatar
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    Only time will tell but there are definitely people that instantly back off a breeding because of carrier status (regardless of how talented the dog) which is a shame. I saw it first hand a few weeks ago.
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    Senior Member Mike Peters-labguy23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt'EmUp View Post
    Interesting thread, I'd like to add to the discussion by asking. What affect testing litters and allowing buyers the option of picking clear or carrier pups out of breedings, is having on this anti-carrier push. I myself refuse to test my litters, I setup my breedings to produce the whole dog, and while guaranteeing an unaffected puppy, I don't like the idea that the most talented pups might be discounted before they ever see a bird. I've had many buyers gawk at this but if the breeding isn't good enough that you'd want a pup regardless of one gene, I'm not doing my job as a breeder, and if that's stopping point for a buyer, they are not the type of buyer I need for one of my pups. I have two pups right now, just turned 1yr. they are doing well, I have no idea of their EIC status, 50% either way, but they are both the type of dog I want, they'll both be train and ran, and later on if worthy they might be bred, regardless of whether they turn out carrier or not.

    I agree and disagree. I test my carrier litters. My goal is to have EIC out of my kennel in 3 generations or less. So if I have 3 females and 2 are clear and I like them as good as the carrier I will keep the clears. On my carrier litters I always seem to have 3-4 people who have no intentions on breeding so I save them $200-$300 and sell them carriers. Everyone is happy and we know we are producing clear pups.

    Now I may breed my FC AFC Shaq bitch who is QAA and is running all age stakes to FC AFC Ali. I will test and hope even FT homes will want to buy carriers.
    Mike Peters

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    There is a prejudice out there for carrier's. Even with those that understand the carrier status. Most of it revolves around the market for puppies. Personally, I would have no problem owning a carrier female. But, I would be reluctant to own a carrier male, for the reasons outlined above.

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    What is the ratio of clear v carrier derby list dogs .....?

    john
    "i guess the old saying 'those of us that think we know everything annoy those of you that does' " --bobbyb 9/13/06

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