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Thread: Will the EIC ignorance have a major negative impact?

  1. #101
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breck View Post
    For those in the know I'm curious if culling is or was practiced by performance retriever breeders.
    I don't believe this is practiced anymore (unless it was an extreme circumstances); It would be pretty abhorrent to put together breedings that would intentionally produce problems that need to be culled. Most puppies, pre-EIC test, with controllable EIC could be placed in pet homes on limited registration = no breeding, stopping the gene that way. Now that we have the test, it's pretty unconscionable to breed dogs without knowing their status. I would also assume most responsible breeders do whatever they can to prevent producing puppy's that might need to be culled. That said after seeing a CNM affected pup produced before the test became mainstream, if you knew the status of a CNM affected puppy; culling might be a viable option. I for one am not strong enough to stand 3-5 yrs of misery for the owner & the dog, dealing with the ups and downs of an extremely affected pup. Still that is a very personal decision, and we have the test so we can absolutely avoid producing affected animals. The vast majority of the other birth defects-diseases-conditions that might involve such extreme measures; as culling; are very unpredictable, and most often beyond a breeders control.

    Of course go back to the early days and Labs were dunked for simply being the wrong color; Limited Registration at least offers an option for ensuring most pups can live normal happy lives but are removed from the breeding pool, a decision that can even be changed later if the situation warrants it .
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 12-16-2013 at 01:10 PM.
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  2. #102
    Senior Member Breck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeff evans View Post
    Wow! You have a vast knowledge of pedigrees, more than anyone I have had the pleasure to talk dogs with. It's very possible he used the words "imported." and I assumed British? Dunno, but can assure you that's what the man said and I trust his knowledge. Where would you get the information going back 50yrs to say with such certainty? Not questioning you, I ask with sincere interest?
    well, some 15 years ago my first two Labradors (British/Irish) were flow to me directly from Ireland by the author of this book who wrote about the sire & dam http://www.amazon.com/The-Complete-G.../dp/1592286488
    (Good read if you shoot shotguns)
    I did a whole lot of digging back then and was unable to find one single dog, bred from UK stock, that had placed in an All-Age Stake at any US Field Trial. There have been a few dogs I know of personally who have managed to QAA by placing in a Qual. It's possible some may have jammed an AA stake but I'm unaware of any that actually have.
    "Darla" AFC Candlewoods Lil Smokin Tequila (2002-2013)(fondly remembered)
    "Smoke" Smokin Auggies Menace, QAA (2003- )(retired nut case, ask Rando)
    "Simba" Humewood Simba (1999-2014)(my 1st dog)

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  3. #103
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    Ok, so we are talking about carriers. I haven't seen anyone say if they are breeding carrier to clear?, carrier to carrier? We know that we can breed this out if done properly. One even said " I refuse to test my litters, and that the most talented pup may be discounted before they ever see a bird". Yes, the most talented dog might be discarded! Would anyone disagree that the purpose is to produce healthy dogs first and foremost? We can test, and breed out a bad, bad gene. If we could identify the dogs that would die of cancer at an early age(a bigger problem in the breedings) would contentious breeders not breed that out as well???? The question arises in my small mind, after looking at these post, is that if a "NATIONAL CHAMPION" is a carrier, that is ok? I, myself would like to see the day that all the dogs are clear! If pure talent alone is the standard for breeding, where will our talent pool come from in ten or twenty years? I am in the dog game. My own opinion is that there is far too little emphasis on healthy, long lived dogs, and far more on what this dog has done, regardless of health. I can't imagine that I am the only one who knows of some very talented dogs that never should have been breed?? Maybe they throw bad hips frequently?, vocal?, EIC affected?, and a host of other things! And, after a few breedings, with the known results of these genetics passed down, kept breeding, because this dog is very talented!!!!! The technology is coming at a quick pace. We can get there, if we think clearly, and unbiased about the breeding process.
    So, I have spoken my mind. My intent is to open real discussion on the affects of breeding these wonderful creatures. For me, if talent is treasured above health, I won't be a part of it. It has gone on for way too long! Healthy, talented dogs are there. Let's be part of the solution!

  4. #104
    Senior Member TroyFeeken's Avatar
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    Tonto, carriers are healthy. I'm afraid you aren't familiar enough with how the process all works. There are still a lot of unknowns with a connection of other traits to some of these genes. The thought that always comes to mind is the great producers of the past. A very large number of them were carriers of EIC or CNM or even both in some instances. If we eradicate a few gene markers, what else are we loosing in the process?
    Cody's Gunslingin' Cosmonaut MH (Shooter)

  5. #105
    Senior Member luvalab's Avatar
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    Again, I think the ft and mostly ht community are in decent shape on the simple recessives--for now, that is. The health and diversity of the vast, moderate middle that keeps the breed birdy and bright for the common guy and gal may be headed for hard times if so many are forgetting 7th grade biology.
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  6. #106
    Member birdog's Avatar
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    I bred my FC female (clear) to a very nice FC-AFC male (carrier) because of his performance traits, drive, looks, pedigree, etc. We had a litter of nine that were dewclaw tested. 3 carriers, 6 clears. Litter just turned 7 weeks and went to new homes this weekend. I had no problem placing pups (including carriers) in FT homes. I did have tons of calls from people that were less than well informed on what EIC carrier status meant.

    It will be a huge shame if great, sound, healthy, breed exemplifying, performers are overlooked because of carrier status.
    Bob Hayden

    Currently Owned by:
    FC Glen Lake's Lion Pride (Piper), (9/22/07)
    FC Chopper's Road Slick (Chloe), (5/18/08)
    Icy Bay's Early Emerger (Hatch), (4/10/11)

    In a perfect world, I would have all ten fingers on my right hand so my left one could be just for punching - Dwight Schrute 2010

  7. #107
    Senior Member Mike Peters-labguy23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by birdog View Post
    I bred my FC female (clear) to a very nice FC-AFC male (carrier) because of his performance traits, drive, looks, pedigree, etc. We had a litter of nine that were dewclaw tested. 3 carriers, 6 clears. Litter just turned 7 weeks and went to new homes this weekend. I had no problem placing pups (including carriers) in FT homes. I did have tons of calls from people that were less than well informed on what EIC carrier status meant.

    It will be a huge shame if great, sound, healthy, breed exemplifying, performers are overlooked because of carrier status.
    I think it is obvious with a FC bitch placing pups is always easier regardless of anything else. I haven't had issues selling carriers with from my untitled bitch but they have gone to ht or hunting homes. FC bitch to untitled bitch is apples to oranges in regards to selling pups.
    Mike Peters

  8. #108
    Senior Member TBell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Peters-labguy23 View Post
    I think it is obvious with a FC bitch placing pups is always easier regardless of anything else. I haven't had issues selling carriers with from my untitled bitch but they have gone to ht or hunting homes. FC bitch to untitled bitch is apples to oranges in regards to selling pups.
    Mike,

    My bitch is only QAA, and I am having no problem placing carriers. I have 11 pups, and only two requests for clears. One is for myself so I can breed her to some of these wonderfully talented and underutilized carrier males.

    I believe the initial reaction of steering clear of the carriers is being replaced with a little education. Again, 20,000 genes admitted by the Univ. of Minn. are carriers of many things, EIC being only 1/20,000 of the equation. Thank goodness for the test, so we can avoid ever producing an affected again.

    Now, back to my search for a sire who is a carrier of marking, style, trainability, speed, intelligence, longevity, fertility, and of course good looks!

  9. #109
    Senior Member coachmo's Avatar
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    What purpose would be served if there were no EIC carriers out there? How would the breed be better off? I think it's time for all of the anti-EIC people to find a new problem to hone in on because if history is any indication it coming. There will always be something to try and selectively breed out of dogs.
    Last edited by coachmo; 12-17-2013 at 11:00 AM.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by coachmo View Post
    What purpose would be served if there were no EIC carriers out there? How would the breed be better off? I think it's time for all of the anti-EIC people to find a new problem to hone in on because if history is any indication it coming. There will always be something to try and selectively breed out of dogs.
    http://www.thelabradorclub.com/uploa...edysplasia.pdf

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