I would not be happy. I assume the pup was shipped sight unseen, and that the person receiving the pup was not told? If I was ever planning to breed the pup, I would return it. If not, I might still return it....or I would request pretty darn big refund on the puppy price.
Bite changes as the puppy grows. I would be very concerned. I might return the puppy if I was going to want to breed it. I might wait it out. I would definitely be in touch with the breeder with pictures. But I have seen stuff like this straighten itself out. That is getting to be a bit big of a gap, but"...........
Buyers are newbies, and they didn't know to look at the bite, just saw a cute puppy. Vet and trainer picked up on it. Puppy only eats sideways at this point.
"Breeder" says she saw it but it's no big deal and will (HaHaHa) correct itself as the pup grows. Refund has been given after much drama, but "breeder" won't take the pup back because "the puppy has already bonded with them and it won't be able to bond with a new owner".
The breeder gave the money back so I am not sure where the criticism lies. The family has the option to place the pup, sell the pup, give it to rescue or euthanize it. If you breed long enough, something will pop up. This pup can have a good quality of life. It's not like an allergy dog where the dog is miserable all the time, an EIC affected dog, CNM dog,or the like.
Pretty funky looking mouth there, I'd not be happy, and I'd be horrified and embarrassed if I missed that and sent it home. Missing teeth, bad bite, not one I'd risk waiting out. Not taking pup back and saying pup will outgrow that = buncha hooey. Hope pup works out okay for the family regardless.
In my experience with other breeds, the lower jaw grows slower. Minor Overbites will sometimes correct, level puppy bites or very tight bites often go under, and puppies with under bites rarely outgrow them. More often they get worse. Maybe labs are different?
Seller only gave a refund after buyers went up, shall we say, higher channels....seller claims its a perfectly fine and acceptable puppy and doesn't understand why buyer doesn't want it. Vet caught it immediately after purchase, and trainer verified, followed by additional vet opinions.
My point is that the seller knew and did not disclose, insists the pup is acceptable because newbies didn't check the bite when they picked the pup up, and seller only gave a refund after additional action was taken.
Brad, Depending on the severity and how the rest of the jaw is, it can be an issue with eating especially with rear teeth.
I can't imagine not knowing before a pup left my place. We're always playing with their mouths.
I had a pup that was stepped on at a week of age. Broke her nose. Needless to say, by six weeks we knew she'd need dental work. I paid for the first surgery at 8 weeks. She had to have dead teeth pulled and her canines on one side. Otherwise they would have pierced her skin. When her permanent teeth came in, she had a couple more teeth pulled and an upper canine. She has a twisted nose and her lower left canine sticks out. She's cute. She retrieves and is working on her hunting titles and obedience titles. I placed her in a good home that will be competing with her. She's a trip!
That was an extreme case, but we couldn't have gone without those two surgeries. In various other bite issues its the same way.
That bonding issue is where Mr. Wolters did a diservice to dogs. I understand his point was to not "farm raise" dogs in a kennel without socializing them, but he WAY OVERSTRESSES the bonding. Or rather missed the point entirely. The idea that most people take away from his books are to bond ON the 49th day. But the real point is to be ABLE to form a bond with HUMANS before that. Actually Fox's research, which he cites, states that much earlier closer to week 4 is the point that dogs should learn to interact with people. Not specific people. Just people. The pervasive myth that you MUST have your puppy by day 49 or it will never bond WITH YOU is just wrong. (I am sorry for the soap boxing)
My point being Laurie....I`ve had 2 and 3 yo dogs that went to new owners and their main concern was "bonding" what a load of crap......Hell watched a dog that was QAA crawl in a cadillac and not even look back goin out the drive.....Jim
I had a wonderful, well bred, YLF, with a drastic overbite. Breeder showed it to me and required spaying.
As I am not a breeder I was happy with the discount.
She was a great hunter, carried geese and pheasants easily. As she did smaller birds like chukars and doves.
Ate and drank the same way as my male with a perfect bite ate and drank.
She never knew her teeth did not align and we never told her.
How come when I send a dog to my trainer at six months or so, they seem to bond so well with them?(the trainer) Then when they come home at some time later, it is like they were never gone....? Yes, there is some transistion in training that takes place...but it takes place quickly. I have a five year old sleeping at my feet. He spent almost two years with his trainer, then came home and went back again two times in the last year. I think he may just like us both....JD
I had a person who purchased a pup from our last litter that was concerned because I do not have a beard and he did! He was concerned about bonding with a 49 day old puppy!
If they knew and didn't care, that's one thing and entirely their option. The point of the OP was what would you do if you got such a pup, not just significantly bad bite but missing teeth, eating funny, without disclosure up front and later, a BS story from the breeder who knew before hand? I'd be pissed.
I've seen very slight overbites correct, but underbites rarely ever do, especially when it's this obvious. An underbite where the teeth still touch? Maybe. But with dentition like this, I'd wager a sizeable amount on it staying the same or worse.
That's what I've heard as well. I've not personally had to deal with bad bites, knock really hard on wood, but if and when it happens, they'll be placed accordingly, with disclosure. No reason for it to be a death sentence, or even a career-ender, but, buyers have the right to know and decide for themselves. I'd not keep a pup with underbite, at all, but slight overbite, with really promising pup, maybe, at least until it was old enough for OFA prelims.
I still don't see the necessity or purpose of this thread. It seems as if it is a close an attempt as possible to throw someone under a bus. The breeder gave back the money and did not force giving back the dog or force a euthanasia. No one knows what this person/breeder was thinking, or not thinking. I have not had an underbite, but I have seen them correct themselves. Threads like this always amuse me, because they are always full of "I nevers" but when push comes to shove, the "I nevers" are never a reality.
I guess I'd better clarify my point in starting this thread. And my apologies for not being more clear initially. My question in bold:
Is it acceptable for a breeder to know and then not disclose issues like this? The average puppy buyer doesn't know to look for stuff like a bite that's off, or an umbilical hernia, etc.
This buyer found out at the new puppy vet check a couple of days after picking up the puppy. And yes, a refund was given of $1000 of the original $1500. And the breeder REFUSED to take the puppy back...the buyers initially wanted to return it immediately following the vet appointment and the breeder flat out refused.
A breeder refusing a puppy back shouldn't be breeding, Period. A refund would depend on the purpose the puppy was purchased for... If the buyer didn't know enough to look for a bite, I would hope it wasn't bought as a breeding prospect. For a pet/companion/performance dog, is it going to affect it's life/job?? As a breeder, I would pay for a consult with a dental specialist and go from there.
YES, it should have absolutely been pointed out by the breeder!
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