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Thread: Dog Knows The Difference. I'm Stumped!

  1. #11
    Senior Member Bridget Bodine's Avatar
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    He will get the idea if you stick to your guns.... SIT , I would deal with it in the blind, IF he truly is steady in the yard, Steady means ZERO forward movement
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  2. #12
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Back-chain the gun fire to be the same as a sit command.

    Do it just like you taught the whistle

    bang - sit - dog sits - release + reward

    won't take long before bang = sit

    I'd lay off any retrieves where a sit isn't required for a while also.

    Just an alternate idea of something you can do to help him understand what's required.
    Darrin Greene

  3. #13
    Senior Member BigKahuna13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrinGreene View Post
    Back-chain the gun fire to be the same as a sit command.

    Do it just like you taught the whistle

    bang - sit - dog sits - release + reward


    won't take long before bang = sit

    I'd lay off any retrieves where a sit isn't required for a while also.

    Just an alternate idea of something you can do to help him understand what's required.
    Thanks for the tip. Hopefully santa can provide me with a new E-collar. For now it will be back to yard work and progress out from there. May end the season for him until I can fix this issue. Merry Christmas.

  4. #14
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    I too have difficulty finding training spots close by that I can shoot. Can you find a place you could at least fire off poppers or blanks? That combined with dead ducks from wingers would tell you if it is the gun or more likely the live flyers getting under his skin !

  5. #15
    Senior Member Erik Nilsson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrinGreene View Post
    Back-chain the gun fire to be the same as a sit command.

    Do it just like you taught the whistle

    bang - sit - dog sits - release + reward

    won't take long before bang = sit

    I'd lay off any retrieves where a sit isn't required for a while also.

    Just an alternate idea of something you can do to help him understand what's required.

    I like this thinking outside the box of normal training---I know a guy that taught his dog to sit to a duck call and of course whistle and verbal but it caries over to hunt tests at the line and in the blind. Good steady dog

    One thing I do, is not let my dog pick up everything, I know he can retrieve, however, I like to keep him honest from time to time. Im not afraid to walk out and pick up a shot bird BUT I reward the steady for sure

    sometimes you have to look for triggers, maybe the dog is keying in on the word "take em" or something on the sorts, blind doors on a layout field blind can be that too ex. doors come open dog breaks or something so try to pay attention to the little things too.

    Just some thoughts
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  6. #16
    Administrator Chris Atkinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrinGreene View Post
    Back-chain the gun fire to be the same as a sit command.

    Do it just like you taught the whistle

    bang - sit - dog sits - release + reward

    won't take long before bang = sit

    I'd lay off any retrieves where a sit isn't required for a while also.

    Just an alternate idea of something you can do to help him understand what's required.
    I like this, as one other poster commented.

    I did almost the same kind of thing with a now deceased NAHRA dog - old Luke the one who finished his career on 3 legs. I had Luke's daddy Champ who was always on the ragged edge of breaking on the flush in NAHRA Senior tests. With Luke, I taught him to sit on "bird!" which we were all yelling when a grouse would flush anyhow in real hunts.

    Luke learned to sit on "bird" before a gun ever went off. He then began sitting on the flush when a gun went off without anyone yelling "bird". The flush and the gun equaled a sit.

    I like the way you explained it.

    Chris
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  7. #17
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigKahuna13 View Post
    Thanks for the tip. Hopefully santa can provide me with a new E-collar. For now it will be back to yard work and progress out from there. May end the season for him until I can fix this issue. Merry Christmas.
    I hope you do to. I have always hunted my dogs, and each one of them despite being very well trained Master Hunters and field trial dogs, broke on that first shot hunting. I learned quickly to expect that, even though five of my six dogs were very steady in field trials. I learned like other's have suggested to let my buddy do the shooting while I sat prepared transmitter in hand. The instant my dog broke, I yelled SIT, and put a pretty heavy correction on him. Usually it only took that one correction for the whole season. The dog instantly understood that though we were hunting, this was one area where things were going to be treated exactly the same as in training. This is actually better than running trials where the dog can become collar wise, hunting you can use that collar. Hopefully you only need it for the first couple of outings.

    John

  8. #18
    Senior Member KwickLabs's Avatar
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    Darrin Greene said
    ”Back-chain the gun fire to be the same as a sit command. Do it just like you taught the whistle
    bang - sit - dog sits - release + reward”


    This can have dramatic impact on making a steady dog if begun early!

    Many years ago (Tuesday, Feb 18, 2003) there was a great thread started by Ted Shih.

    Sit Means Sit.......?

    Since then this expression has been regularly referenced. The expression "Sit means sit" on RTF more less refers back back to his thread, but it is abbreviated. Originally it was Sit means Sit - Or Does It? and the very important part Or does it?" is usually left out. This tends to make posting “Sit Means Sit” an incomplete suggestion. It is often said that dogs are situational learners. Which means sit must continually be proofed. Most dogs will at some time fail to accept the "always" implication. The fact is a well established "sit" requires exposing a dog to every situation where the sit standard is expected. Teaching a dog the difference between when and always can be elusive.

    As Darrin's suggestion points out establishing a new routine where "bird in the air = sit, whistle = sit and bang = sit" and a reward provides layering to the dog's responsiveness and expectations. Each stage provides a "Sit!" focus. In addition to the visuals, there may even be a verbal "sit".

    Now I would suggest that one can further enrich control by asking for even more responsiveness when asking the dog to come to the trainer via "here" and "sit" beside the trainer (under control) before any release and reward. This modification has a dramatic impact on the forward momentum of an out of control dog. The dog learns the line (anywhere) is not a "launching pad".

    Pat Nolan has written an article about applying this layering technique. By altering the approach to suit what your dog already knows, it is fairly easy to make his idea fit any program. It provides an effective input into answering the "Or Does It" part of "Sit Means Sit". In essence, the dog's responsiveness is enhanced and reestablishes who is in charge.

    Here is a link to training based on applying modifications of Pat Nolan's approach to "steadiness".

    The Hide Steady Drill (link)
    Last edited by KwickLabs; 12-23-2013 at 11:29 AM.
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  9. #19
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    And to think some of us ask the question"what can we do in training when snow has covered the ground"..

    Thanks Mr Kwick.
    as always your posts are very educational...
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  10. #20
    Senior Member polmaise's Avatar
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    The dog does know the difference!
    Can't take anything away from the previous excellent posts! Especially the 'Backchaining' ! ..I don't know the OP or his dog,and as y'all know we don't use collar over here.
    Last edited by polmaise; 12-23-2013 at 06:08 PM.
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