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Thread: Rowdy (by Pirate) What would you do?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Wayne Nutt's Avatar
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    Default Rowdy (by Pirate) What would you do?

    Rowdy running a 315 yd single. He has run this mark before, several weeks ago. But previously it was thrown right to left. Today it was left to right. He had a good initial line but when he got close he went to the wrong side of the gun. Would you have:
    Handled when he changed directions to the wrong side
    Had two wingers and tossed a second one when he changed direction
    Not run this mark
    Other?
    Thanks in advance

    http://s868.photobucket.com/user/way...68d1b.mp4.html

    Note: Santa brought me a new HD Sony Handycam. Much better clarity and you can see the dog all the way out.
    Wayne Nutt
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    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    I would not have re-run it in the first place with the throw in the opposite direction. I don't like re-running marks, but it seems to me you've set him up to do this by throwing in the opposite direction. The only real advantage to a re-run is the familiarity of the destination to get the dog out further, or to a difficult spot. There are better ways to do that. It doesn't seem at all fair to flip the throw.

    Evan
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    I would not have re-run it in the first place with the throw in the opposite direction. I don't like re-running marks, but it seems to me you've set him up to do this by throwing in the opposite direction. The only real advantage to a re-run is the familiarity of the destination to get the dog out further, or to a difficult spot. There are better ways to do that. It doesn't seem at all fair to flip the throw.

    Evan
    I can't watch the video, so can't comment on that, but, in general, I throw marks in different directions from the same station. A "Y" type drill comes to mind, for one thing. Or I'll have 4-6 gun stations with stickmen, gunner throws singles from each and often I will have them thrown both sides of the same station. Teaching a dog to watch the mark, as well as fighting factors. Think mama/papa, not exactly unheard of even in HT.
    Kim Pfister, Rainmaker Labs

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    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    That's a good point. I do a bit of that, but at far less distance for the sake of focus and skill. But do you run those drills at over 300 yards, and expect the dog not to backside?

    Evan
    "Prepare your dog in such a manner that the work he is normally called upon to do under-whelms him, not overwhelms him." ~ Evan Graham

    “People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”

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    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    That's a good point. I do a bit of that, but at far less distance for the sake of focus and skill. But do you run those drills at over 300 yards, and expect the dog not to backside?

    Evan
    We run some FT, so yeah. The dogs have to learn to mark & carry factors at distance. I'll do a Y drill with myself as the thrower and send the dog back to the line, at several hundred yards. If I couldn't switch directions on throws from a particular spot even weeks apart, I'd quickly run out of grounds for training. And, we run trials & tests on grounds we've trained on sometimes, so, the dogs need to learn to mark the bird thrown, not run to where they saw a mark (or blind) the previous week. I see nothing unfair as long as the dog can see the bird. How I correct or help depends on the dog and the situation.
    Kim Pfister, Rainmaker Labs

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    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Thanks for the feedback.

    Evan
    "Prepare your dog in such a manner that the work he is normally called upon to do under-whelms him, not overwhelms him." ~ Evan Graham

    “People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”

    ― George Bernard Shaw


    The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
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  7. #7
    Senior Member RetrieversONLINE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Nutt View Post
    Rowdy running a 315 yd single. He has run this mark before, several weeks ago. But previously it was thrown right to left. Today it was left to right. He had a good initial line but when he got close he went to the wrong side of the gun. Would you have:
    Handled when he changed directions to the wrong side
    Had two wingers and tossed a second one when he changed direction
    Not run this mark
    Other?
    Thanks in advance

    http://s868.photobucket.com/user/way...68d1b.mp4.html

    Note: Santa brought me a new HD Sony Handycam. Much better clarity and you can see the dog all the way out.
    Wayne

    For starters, I wouldn't have thrown the mark from right to left a few weeks ago. Looks like this long mark would be screened by a tree if you did. And no I wouldn't throw the same long mark both ways at that distance even though I do throw momma-poppas and do the Y-drill at shorter distances.

    The real question though is what factors are present. I don't see any wind on the leaves or any other break point on route. There is a clear slot to the bird so why did he go left. Probably only because he suddenly remembered how he got that bird last time. It's like repeating a mark that a dog failed and you didn't intervene. They will often do it wrong again. We cannot always be sure a dog really saw the bird in the air even though you wisely had white tape.

    I will handle whenever a dog gives into a factor for example if wind had been right to left. I will sometimes recall if dog starts off wrong and holds that line but here Rowdy took a perfect line and then deviated.

    You certainly weren't prepared to handle. Whistle and collar not ready. AND I would hate to handle at 300 yards dressed like you were with that background. Why do you wear camo all the time when you are teaching your dog?

    You asked.

    You also asked about your new slogan- "My dog training is Nutts!" Sorry Wayne -couldn't resist

    Cheers

    PS. Much clearer video!!
    Dennis

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    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    I wouldn't use a winger for marks beyond 200 yards. I've found mine don't see the bird well enough for it to be fair, so human throwers only when I'm doing distance. And when teaching relationships to each other and the gunner, I use a pretty much feature-less field.
    Kim Pfister, Rainmaker Labs

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    Senior Member Mike Peters-labguy23's Avatar
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    I agree with Kim. I will rarely ever use a winger farther than HT marks (150 yards) and if I have to I will put out at least 2 wingers at that location.

    Dennis hit all the things I noticed.
    Mike Peters

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    Senior Member BAYDOG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    I would not have re-run it in the first place with the throw in the opposite direction. I don't like re-running marks, but it seems to me you've set him up to do this by throwing in the opposite direction. The only real advantage to a re-run is the familiarity of the destination to get the dog out further, or to a difficult spot. There are better ways to do that. It doesn't seem at all fair to flip the throw.

    Evan
    I agree. I was taught that a mark and scenario with it were to be treated like a Photo album" to a dog. A picture to remember and reference? By running the same mark, but changing the direction of throw, you mess up his mental picture he learned before. I would have run a similar mark, changing the direction of the throw, in a slightly different location. Similar, but different!
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