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Thread: AKC or UKC

  1. #41
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marissa E. View Post
    .
    Ukc cannot be register afterwards with akc without akc papers.


    Unless you spay or neuter... Then you can get papers with akc and play both games...
    This is not true you can indeed get full AKC papers on a UKC register pup out of only UKC registered parents, you just need to prove an unbroken line back to AKC registered dogs. For some breeds hounds etc. you need to prove an unbroken line back to UKC dogs, as they orginaly kept those breed records. The UKC and AKC registries actually get along pretty well, they're both interested in preserving a pure-bred dog. I have friends that have gotten full AKC registration on their UKC registered dogs, in order to run AKC events, I have another friend that has filled out the paperwork and done the research for others. However most UKC litters are dual registered already so in most cases it does not matter.
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 01-01-2014 at 11:29 AM.
    "They's Just DAWGS"
    "Hunting is a skill to be learned whether you do it early or late it still needs to be learned"
    "I train dogs, Not papers"

    GMRH HRCH Quick MH (most importantly Duck/Upland Enthusiast)
    MHR HRCH Lakota MH (most importantly Upland/Duck Enthusiast)
    SHR Storm.. the Pup (Beginning Upland & Waterfowl Enthusiast)

  2. #42
    Senior Member Marissa E.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt'EmUp View Post
    This is not true you can indeed get full AKC papers on a UKC register pup out of only UKC registered parents, you just need to prove an unbroken line back to AKC registered dogs. For some breeds hounds etc. you need to prove an unbroken line back to UKC dogs, as they orginaly kept those breed records. The UKC and AKC registries actually get along pretty well, they're both interested in preserving a pure-bred dog. I have friends that have gotten full AKC registration on their UKC registered dogs, in order to run AKC events, I have another friend that has filled out the paperwork and done the research for others. However most UKC litters are dual registered already so in most cases it does not matter.
    I had no idea, thanks!
    You just have to hope all the dogs trace back to AKC then I guess. Probably very likely in labradors, hounds I think could get trickier.... But that's beside the point.
    Last edited by Marissa E.; 01-01-2014 at 11:37 AM.

    Marissa Everett

    Hebrews 12:11 No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.

  3. #43
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    As a comment to the OP, It's a dog that will lay on your couch and that you'll be spending 10+ yrs. of your life with. Not papers, pedigrees nor titles. There are several pups I would get in bidding wars to purchase out of breedings from completely untitled parents, verses some others I would not take out of breedings and dogs with the highest qualifications. It's important to know what you want, and find parents that throw those traits to their offspring. I prefer to brag on what a dog can actually do with me verses what his parents might've done for someone else.
    "They's Just DAWGS"
    "Hunting is a skill to be learned whether you do it early or late it still needs to be learned"
    "I train dogs, Not papers"

    GMRH HRCH Quick MH (most importantly Duck/Upland Enthusiast)
    MHR HRCH Lakota MH (most importantly Upland/Duck Enthusiast)
    SHR Storm.. the Pup (Beginning Upland & Waterfowl Enthusiast)

  4. #44
    Senior Member TIM DOANE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt'EmUp View Post
    As a comment to the OP, It's a dog that will lay on your couch and that you'll be spending 10+ yrs. of your life with. Not papers, pedigrees nor titles. There are several pups I would get in bidding wars to purchase out of breedings from completely untitled parents, verses some others I would not take out of breedings and dogs with the highest qualifications. It's important to know what you want, and find parents that throw those traits to their offspring. I prefer to brag on what a dog can actually do with me verses what his parents might've done for someone else.
    I think the OP was talking about picking a pup from a litter, not buying a trained dog that has proven itself. What you speak of in my opinion is the exception not the rule. I too have seen and trained dogs that look like nothing on paper that I would never consider buying as a pup that look awesome as a 2 year old trained dog but not very often. I too have seen and trained dogs that look great on paper that never amounted to much. I train a lot of gun dogs and folks bring me a lot of $200.00 puppy's and once in awhile they get lucky. Most times not. I also get well bred dogs and most times we have very nice dogs as a result. Everyone loves the "beating the odds story" but myself when it comes to picking a puppy "that you'll be spending 10+ years with" I would rather play the odds.
    Last edited by TIM DOANE; 01-01-2014 at 01:47 PM.
    Tim Doane , Kingseed Kennels
    GRHRCH UH Hunters Marsh King Elijah MNH QAA "Ely"
    GRHRCH Kingseeds Little Miss Dangerous MNH QAA " Stella "
    HRCH Kingseeds Queen Of Grace MH " Hannah "
    Kingseeds She's A Classic " Layla "
    www.kingseedkennels.com

  5. #45
    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TIM DOANE View Post
    I think the OP was talking about picking a pup from a litter, not buying a trained dog that has proven itself. What you speak of in my opinion is the exception not the rule. I too have seen and trained dogs that look like nothing on paper that I would never consider buying as a pup that look awesome as a 2 year old trained dog but not very often. I too have seen and trained dogs that look great on paper that never amounted to much. I train a lot of gun dogs and folks bring me a lot of $200.00 puppy's and once in awhile they get lucky. Most times not. I also get well bred dogs and most times we have very nice dogs as a result. Everyone loves the "beating the odds story" but myself when it comes to picking a puppy "that you'll be spending 10+ years with" I would rather play the odds.
    I agree Tim. There is a considerable investment being made both from a money standpoint and emotional standpoint. Go into giving yourself the best opportunity

    /Paul
    Paul Cantrell
    Black Ice Retrievers
    Marcola OR

    Too many dogs to list (By some Bitch)

    https://www.facebook.com/BlackIceRetrievers
    http://gundog2002.blogspot.com/
    "Helping Hunters Train Their Dogs"

  6. #46
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    Great post

  7. #47
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Welp since only my first dog was from untitled parents, who I bred to get my next dog and who I will eventually breed to get my next dog, etc. And I enjoy putting those titles AKC & UKC on my dogs. I can't argue against getting a pup out of titled parents Not that I wouldn't cross in a excellent non-titled meat dog I was very familiar with, or an untitled sibling of a superior female with lines I'd like to cross in, but that's breeder speak. For a newbie just starting out unfamiliar with the performance or hunting world, who doesn't have a list of dogs (performance or meat) they'd love to have a pup out of. It's much safer to buy out of dogs, with higher titles, whether AKC or UKC, both show the skill set. Still it is important to note that dogs are individuals and just because they have high titles doesn't mean that particular dog or pups of those dogs are your style. You need to know the parents, particularly the female to know they are what you want.

    Now We might as well have a bit of popcorn, as this thread has been so civilized .

    An HRCH skill set is superior to an AKC JH or SH, it's on par with a MH. Anyone one discounting either the MH or HRCH title hasn't ran enough of either event. Individual judges determine hard verse not, there are hard AKC judges and hard UKC judges, often times they are the same judge . It only takes one bird in one series to fail a dog. 2 verse 3 series, goes both ways, 3 series could be agrued to show more consistency but you can also make up points in the 3rd, when a the same dog would be out with only 2. The GRHRCH is a rare title, particularly for an amateur handler. I don't know of a single handler who has actually ran the event that would discount a grand pass nor a GRHRCH title. Anyone who'd compare the grand to the Master National hasn't ran both events. This is not discounting a MNH, nor saying the grand is harder in setup, technics etc. The events are not a skill-set difference, the grand has a harder grading scale, there is very little grey area and thus mathematically harder to pass. IMO The truly finished & all around dogs, swap hunt test venues easily, others have a harder time with it. I've seen many a MHs go a bit crazy & noisy with a real gun, and miss birds with no calls, hidden stations etc. I've seen solid HRCH's break on loud station calls & live-flyers, and be loose on MH blinds.
    "They's Just DAWGS"
    "Hunting is a skill to be learned whether you do it early or late it still needs to be learned"
    "I train dogs, Not papers"

    GMRH HRCH Quick MH (most importantly Duck/Upland Enthusiast)
    MHR HRCH Lakota MH (most importantly Upland/Duck Enthusiast)
    SHR Storm.. the Pup (Beginning Upland & Waterfowl Enthusiast)

  8. #48
    Senior Member jacduck's Avatar
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    I am sincerely disappointed. It has been 5 days since this originated and only 5 pages. Do the averages that is one page a day and with a topic this important it should have gone over the top.
    John C aka jacduck


    "Duck hunter's minds are like concrete. All mixed up and permanently set."

  9. #49
    Senior Member TIM DOANE's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Hunt'EmUp;1175008]Welp since only my first dog was from untitled parents, who I bred to get my next dog and who I will eventually breed to get my next dog, etc.

    So you have bred one dog and trained 2?
    Tim Doane , Kingseed Kennels
    GRHRCH UH Hunters Marsh King Elijah MNH QAA "Ely"
    GRHRCH Kingseeds Little Miss Dangerous MNH QAA " Stella "
    HRCH Kingseeds Queen Of Grace MH " Hannah "
    Kingseeds She's A Classic " Layla "
    www.kingseedkennels.com

  10. #50
    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    Well to each his own opinion. If I had a choice, I'd go for the harder venue with longer marks, more series, real birds and less judging of the handler. You choose which venue does that...

    /Paul
    Paul Cantrell
    Black Ice Retrievers
    Marcola OR

    Too many dogs to list (By some Bitch)

    https://www.facebook.com/BlackIceRetrievers
    http://gundog2002.blogspot.com/
    "Helping Hunters Train Their Dogs"

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