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Thread: AKC or UKC

  1. #51
    Senior Member Sharon Potter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun_Dog2002 View Post
    Well to each his own opinion. If I had a choice, I'd go for the harder venue with longer marks, more series, real birds and less judging of the handler. You choose which venue does that...

    /Paul

    I had no idea that we were killing a bunch of fake ducks to use!

    And are longer (slightly) marks really harder when there's a shot from that spot to attract a dog's attention, as opposed to the dog having to swing with the gun (real, not plywood) and look for the actual bird, with no noise from the field like in a real world hunting situation?

    Why three series for a hunt test? A good, hunting, judge who understands bird placement and the variables that go into a day's hunt should certainly be able to get the answers they need in two well planned and active series in a hunt test situation. Does three series make it harder or just longer? Wouldn't four be even better? It's a hunt test, not a field trial.

    Again, to each their own. Too many variables in judges, part of the country, etc. to say one is better/easier/harder. It makes more sense to say XYZ is one's "favorite" venue.
    Sharon Potter

    www.redbranchkennels.net

    Chesapeake Bay Retrievers...too many to list.

    Team Huntsmith

  2. #52
    Senior Member Golden Boy's Avatar
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    Yes, depending on what I wanted to do with the dog. If I only wanted a strong hunting, hunt test and family dog sure I'd buy a dog with only UKC titles. But the titles would have to be more than a started title. If I wanted a trial dog I'd buy a pup only from an FC, AFC breeding unless I saw the parents work in the field and I could judge thier marking and style. Then I may buy a pup with nothing in the pedigree.
    I am always leary of Hunt Test titled dogs. Because at the end of the day it's a test and how many tests did the dog run to get the title. How well does the dog mark ect?? There's a lot of variables when I'm looking for a pup that aren't answered in HT titles. But that's just me.....
    Cold Creek Gundogs
    The more I'm on the internet the more I love my dogs.

  3. #53
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    Default Javan's Pet Transportation

    If they do not have AKC or any type of registration
    Any time would be Good Because it doesn't matter what time of year
    Unless the person can get you the papers

    You can still buy the dog and if they can get papers you can talk the price.

  4. #54
    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharon Potter View Post
    I had no idea that we were killing a bunch of fake ducks to use!

    And are longer (slightly) marks really harder when there's a shot from that spot to attract a dog's attention, as opposed to the dog having to swing with the gun (real, not plywood) and look for the actual bird, with no noise from the field like in a real world hunting situation?

    Why three series for a hunt test? A good, hunting, judge who understands bird placement and the variables that go into a day's hunt should certainly be able to get the answers they need in two well planned and active series in a hunt test situation. Does three series make it harder or just longer? Wouldn't four be even better? It's a hunt test, not a field trial.

    Again, to each their own. Too many variables in judges, part of the country, etc. to say one is better/easier/harder. It makes more sense to say XYZ is one's "favorite" venue.
    you hopefully understand what effect flyers have on a dog. 3series in a test show more trainabilty and control. A shot in the field makes the dog do the work, vs the dog learning to heal (the infamous swing with the gun statement). Not sure how a real gun demonstrates a better skill in the dog, oh wait it doesn't. That's the part of hrc focused on the handler not the dog. I've trained dogs too long, played both games, and judged for 10 years. I can debate this all day.

    /Paul
    Paul Cantrell
    Black Ice Retrievers
    Marcola OR

    Too many dogs to list (By some Bitch)

    https://www.facebook.com/BlackIceRetrievers
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    "Helping Hunters Train Their Dogs"

  5. #55
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    It all boils down to Buckets.

    If you like bucket sitting HRC is your game.

    If you like standing, go AKC.

  6. #56
    Senior Member Sharon Potter's Avatar
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    /Paul, I'm really trying to entertain Frank....he was a bit disappointed as I recall.

    Of course I understand live flyers and their effect....wish we had 'em in HRC, but we don't.

    How about the effect of the gun fire coming from the line, beside the dog? All that activity can mess with a dog, too...especially the ones that don't hunt.

    If three series is better, why not four? or five? I can promise you that I can set up two solid hunt test series, within the rules, that will provide an opportunity to see all the trainability and control anyone should need to see in order to judge a dog's competence.

    A shot in the field to draw the dog's attention is still human assistance to get the dog to look. Most dogs learn to identify the winger stations from the line anyway, in both venues. And it's not the way most people hunt, at least around here. Teamwork should be a part of the equation, since that's the way most people I know hunt.


    (hoping Frank will check back in and see if we're providing enough entertainment)
    Sharon Potter

    www.redbranchkennels.net

    Chesapeake Bay Retrievers...too many to list.

    Team Huntsmith

  7. #57
    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Plesko View Post
    It all boils down to Buckets.

    If you like bucket sitting HRC is your game.

    If you like standing, go AKC.
    I had to sit on a bucket in a akc test last year. I feel cheated...lol

    /Paul
    Paul Cantrell
    Black Ice Retrievers
    Marcola OR

    Too many dogs to list (By some Bitch)

    https://www.facebook.com/BlackIceRetrievers
    http://gundog2002.blogspot.com/
    "Helping Hunters Train Their Dogs"

  8. #58
    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharon Potter View Post
    /Paul, I'm really trying to entertain Frank....he was a bit disappointed as I recall.

    Of course I understand live flyers and their effect....wish we had 'em in HRC, but we don't.

    How about the effect of the gun fire coming from the line, beside the dog? All that activity can mess with a dog, too...especially the ones that don't hunt.

    If three series is better, why not four? or five? I can promise you that I can set up two solid hunt test series, within the rules, that will provide an opportunity to see all the trainability and control anyone should need to see in order to judge a dog's competence.

    A shot in the field to draw the dog's attention is still human assistance to get the dog to look. Most dogs learn to identify the winger stations from the line anyway, in both venues. And it's not the way most people hunt, at least around here. Teamwork should be a part of the equation, since that's the way most people I know hunt.


    (hoping Frank will check back in and see if we're providing enough entertainment)
    Well I don't know where Frank went, he's not holding up his part of the entertainment much in this thread. Gunfire at the line isn't that much of a deal when you can talk to your dog....

    /Paul
    Paul Cantrell
    Black Ice Retrievers
    Marcola OR

    Too many dogs to list (By some Bitch)

    https://www.facebook.com/BlackIceRetrievers
    http://gundog2002.blogspot.com/
    "Helping Hunters Train Their Dogs"

  9. #59
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=TIM DOANE;1175234]
    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt'EmUp View Post

    So you have bred one dog and trained 2?
    Hahaha. I love it, yes I only officially own and officially bred 1 dog. But Let's see I've trained my own white trash penny saver pup, with the book GunDog, and later some knowledgable friends, to master titles in three different venues, and even thrown her in that FT game, which I can't stand (sorry not for me ), but I put her in 2 quals! ( I think someone told me she couldn't do it or something ) got a green thingy (she screwed it in the forth), went out after the 3rd in other for a some reason I didn't comprehend (wouldn't be the first time, I don't understand judges). That Dang dog's only got 4 more times to see if she can do it. Still I have trained and ran many many different dogs in akc, ukc, nahra, all levels, all over, even put my hand in those national thingies. Did some research for friends and helped Match up a few talented bitches, producing some nice preforming pups, well senior & seasoned passes a couple of derbies, complete slackers for not being a year old. Still despite my lack of dog owning, I feel i've been around enough people and enough dogs to know what I like and what I want, and most assuredly what I DON'T. So once I absorbed a bit I decided to breed, my bitch @ 5yrs. cuz them dogs don't last forever, to a very similar amazing stud. I got a few of pups, gave one to my parents, the other to a friend, I con them into bringing them out or me picking them up & training them a couple of weekends a month. They had a few seasoned and intermediate passes before turning a year. We've been played at it, heck I let my mom (never ran a dog in her life) run them . I have no real intention of running them until masters, finish etc. fall probably, and there's no need to hurry that. They have been out hunting and running blinds most weekends this season, calm, quite marking fiends, who I enjoy really enjoy watching develop. But yes I only own one dog, one evil bitchy intelligent amazing oftentimes problem dog.

    I'm very glad I'm not a newbie, looking for a pup, the dog world is a crap shoot, when you don't have connections haven't been out there, ran anything, you don't know what's there, you don't know what you want, you don't know what will fit your lifestyle, or as an amateur what you can succeed in training. As a newbie you do you research ask for opinions, how they are good opinions, and then you either get lucky or you don't.
    "They's Just DAWGS"
    "Hunting is a skill to be learned whether you do it early or late it still needs to be learned"
    "I train dogs, Not papers"

    GMRH HRCH Quick MH (most importantly Duck/Upland Enthusiast)
    MHR HRCH Lakota MH (most importantly Upland/Duck Enthusiast)
    SHR Storm.. the Pup (Beginning Upland & Waterfowl Enthusiast)

  10. #60
    Senior Member BJGatley's Avatar
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    Damn guys...We are all dog people and we love what we are doing...Isn't that enough and enjoy what we are doing? We do this stuff because our heart is there and enjoy doing it. Isn't that enough? We can agree to disagree on certain subjects, but understand what we are doing and why we are doing.....We are all in the brotherhood.
    Just saying.....

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