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Thread: Keystone Pipeline anyone?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Golddogs's Avatar
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    Default Keystone Pipeline anyone?

    Wonder what the enviromental impact will be after this mess. Only good thing is the ground is frozen and should slow any runoff that doesn't burn.




    Casselton, N.D.

    Town told to evacuate after oil train derails


    Explosions send up black cloud of smoke



    Associated Press


    Authorities urged residents to evacuate a small North Dakota community Monday night after a mile-long train carrying crude oil derailed outside of town, shaking residents with a series of explosions that sent flames and black smoke skyward.

    The Cass County sheriff’s office said it was “strongly recommending” that people in the town of Casselton and anyone living five miles to the south and east evacuate. A shelter has been set up in Fargo, about 25 miles away. Casselton has about 2,400 residents.

    The sheriff’s office said the National Weather Service was forecasting a shift in the weather that could increase the risk of potential health hazards.

    “That’s going to put the plume right over the top of Casselton,” Cass County Sheriff Paul Laney said at a news briefing.

    Investigators couldn’t get close to the blaze about a mile outside of Casselton, and official estimates of how many train cars caught fire varied. BNSF Railway Co. said it believes about 20 cars caught fire after its oil train left the tracks about 2:10 p.m. Monday. The sheriff’s office said it thinks 10 cars were on fire.

    No one was hurt. The cars were still burning as darkness fell, and authorities said they would be allowed to burn out.

    Authorities hadn’t yet been able to untangle exactly how the derailment happened, but a second train carrying grain was involved. BNSF spokeswoman Amy McBeth said the train carrying grain derailed first, then knocked several cars of the oil train off adjoining tracks.

    BNSF said both trains had more than 100 cars each.

    The National Transportation Safety Board said Monday night it has launched a “go-team” to investigate the accident.

    The derailment happened amid heightened concerns about the United States’ increased reliance on rail to carry crude oil.

    Fears of catastrophic derailments were particularly stoked after last summer’s crash in Quebec of a train carrying crude from North Dakota’s Bakken oil patch. Fortyseven people died in the ensuing fire.
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Uncle Bill's Avatar
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    Fortunately I-94 where most of the pics were taken from by Fargo TV, paralleled the rails, and both were well south of the main city. That no doubt accounted for no loss of life in town.

    Sadly the primary stockholder in that RR is no less than one of the big-time lobbyists against the pipeline that could be moving the bulk of the crude and natural gas from the Nodak oil fields. But that would put a huge dent in the income Buffet and his cronies enjoy. Maybe this will put some urgency into that pipeline construction.

    UB

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    While I know there are some benefits (temporary jobs and a new pipeline for US oil to refineries), I still don't believe it is a good long term or short term energy solution for our country (or environment). As with most issues, it is very difficult to get accurate facts, most seem to be from the companies side, lobbyists, or the environmentalists side. Seems we never get plain facts...how many permanent jobs, will it increase our own gas costs (seems to be a yes), how will it benefit our attempt to cut oil usage/dependency, and what will the true environmental impact be, whether accidents or through construction. This article seems to attempt a level discussion...http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/23/politi...e-xl-pipeline/

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    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Isn't this the second derailment of an oil train in the past couple of weeks?
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    I'm a member of a forum on Trains (TrainOrders.com). These events always cause a stir in that group. Here's the best summary of the events:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3wRP...ature=youtu.be

    This briefing pretty well covers the waterfront for early days. There's no real analysis but the facts are pretty well laid out. I'm still not clear how the crew from the oil train got out. (Technical note: He'll use the word "consist" a couple of times. That's "train-talk" for the totality of the engines and cars that make up a train.)

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    Senior Member Henlee's Avatar
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    Trains sometimes derail. As long as the company makes it right I see no reason to complain. These companies must respect the environment and as long as they clean up after themselves and have a good plan going in I have no problem with what they do.

    The Keystone XL is a good idea regardless. There is some concern about the environmental impact from processing such dirty oil, but if we are not developing it then we will never have the technology to do it better. If we do not start making more dinosaurs soon, then we ought to be preparing for a world without light sweet crude. I make this same argument for renewable energy also.

    As I understand it the permanent jobs will be very low after the project, but that is not why we build pipelines anyhow. I don't imagine that oil companies would want to be shelling out the money for this project if they did not plan to get every cent worth of use out of it, that has to equate to some energy independence from the middle east.
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    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Since oil prices are set by a world market of supply and demand, our oil's impact on our gas pumps may not be immediate. Over the long haul, though, supply dictates pricing so that should have some effect at stabilizing our own gas pump prices, i.e. not causing them to soar every time some tribal leader has a hissy fit or when OPEC elite decide they need to manipulate the market to their own advantage by decreasing production to raise prices.

    Agree, Henlee, that those who profit should be accountable for their own messes.

    I might question, too, that we do not hear more about the issues that arise from the "green energy" sources. I recall reading a piece a while back about the high-pitch of wind turbines causing surrounding residents issues. Solar can have some issues as well. The panels are supposed to last about 20-25 years, then we have to dispose of them. I don't know what materials are used in the panels, but are there questions about safe disposal of those materials, as we have with disposal of those curly lightbulbs?
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    Senior Member M&K's Retrievers's Avatar
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    Well it's obvious that we can't use pipelines because of the danger of spills. It's also obvious that trains are a much safer means of transporting oil.
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    This rail line accident reminds me of the panic following school shootings and the liberal overreaction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by M&K's Retrievers View Post
    Well it's obvious that we can't use pipelines because of the danger of spills. It's also obvious that trains are a much safer means of transporting oil.
    LOL. The pipeline is a good idea......... if it's done right.............trouble is anymore it's hurry up and get it done. A very large pipeline was built accross land in a river bottom area when I was a kid. I'm 76 now and if they have ever had a leak of any size I have not heard about it ( family and friends lived in that area and still do ). They built it correctly. They check it often. My husband worked on a pipeline corrosion survey crew when we were in our 20s so we learned a few things about that. Building it correctly and maintaining are key points to this though. I can't speak to the problems with rail shipment since I only hear about that from the news people and that is not good. It does seem that the railways aren't run well anymore but then what is.

    As I have mentioned before an oil carrying pipeline that went accross our small farm did leak, once before we were the owners of that 160 and once after we got it. It is not good when that happens ( mild statement here ). At this time I'm not exactly in favor of the Keystone pipeline.....not sure of the answer to the shipment problems.
    Last edited by charly_t; 01-01-2014 at 06:24 PM.
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