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Thread: Question for the pros on building confidence in the dog

  1. #41
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by polmaise View Post
    Couldn't agree more!..I suggested earlier a 'No brain'er' drill to ''Build confidence'' in retrieving and handling.
    We use much the same technique with Spaniels , creating a ''One arm Bandit freak'' at Las vegas!....where he get's three cherries on every trip!....then once the sucker is hooked, You just increase the distance ....and the odds'....depending on how far you want to go?
    most assuredly!
    Darrin Greene

  2. #42
    Senior Member TIM DOANE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by afdahl View Post
    You're right, I'm working 'way too hard here. It's a new year; time for a new approach. What's the address to send the payments?

    Amy Dahl
    Sorry Amy it doesn't work that way. The dog doesn't watch the dvd the trainer does and then the trainer goes out and trains the dog. Still gotta work sister

    I do agree with getting together with a pro. In fact I suggested to the OP that if he could find a nearby pro that uses one of the programs he was using that it would be good to stick to that particular program so when he ran into trouble the pro would be able to help. You suggested a "good Pro" and I believe any good pro would want to know exactly what the op had done with the dog prior to seeking help. How nice would it be if the answer was I followed Fowl dawgs or TRT and completed each step all the way to double t. Seems to me that would be much easier than "I sort of followed smart works and duck dog basics and mixed in some 10 minute magic when I only had 10 minutes".

    For me I love it when a pup buyer wants to train their own pup. I really like it when they get involved with more experienced people that can help them when their own lack of experience has them wondering if they are on the right track or if they run into trouble. I have found that when I get a call from a pup buyer or a client that is having an issue it is VERY helpful for everyone to be on the same page. What seems to get them in the most trouble is when they ask for help and get it from someone who never even bothered to ask them what skills they have taught the dog before they give advice.

    What really puzzles me is why people would get there panties all bunched up because it was suggested to a novice dog trainer trying to train their own dog that they stick to a proven system to better their chance of getting as good of a result as dog and trainer are capable of. When I read all of the advice given to this young man on how to get a dog going on blinds when he has not even taught the dog to handle or even, as far as we know sit on a whistle and the big complaint is why is everyone telling him to stick to a "program" REALLY?

    I hope he does start over and follow Rick Stawski or Mike Lardy so he can learn how one step builds towards another and how these dogs can learn so much if they are given a real chance at understanding what we are asking them to do. I am very glad I started with the $69.99 program as it has really helped me do a better job with the dogs I get a chance to work with. I really hope that I will learn as much in the next 5 years as I have in the last five years and I am really grateful to the folks that poured their hard work into making the $69.99 program so that I did not waste five years stumbling my way through just to get an understanding of what they taught me on their DVD's
    Tim Doane , Kingseed Kennels
    GRHRCH UH Hunters Marsh King Elijah MNH QAA "Ely"
    GRHRCH Kingseeds Little Miss Dangerous MNH QAA " Stella "
    HRCH Kingseeds Queen Of Grace MH " Hannah "
    Kingseeds She's A Classic " Layla "
    www.kingseedkennels.com

  3. #43
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TIM DOANE View Post
    Sorry Amy it doesn't work that way. The dog doesn't watch the dvd the trainer does and then the trainer goes out and trains the dog. Still gotta work sister

    I do agree with getting together with a pro. In fact I suggested to the OP that if he could find a nearby pro that uses one of the programs he was using that it would be good to stick to that particular program so when he ran into trouble the pro would be able to help. You suggested a "good Pro" and I believe any good pro would want to know exactly what the op had done with the dog prior to seeking help. How nice would it be if the answer was I followed Fowl dawgs or TRT and completed each step all the way to double t. Seems to me that would be much easier than "I sort of followed smart works and duck dog basics and mixed in some 10 minute magic when I only had 10 minutes".

    For me I love it when a pup buyer wants to train their own pup. I really like it when they get involved with more experienced people that can help them when their own lack of experience has them wondering if they are on the right track or if they run into trouble. I have found that when I get a call from a pup buyer or a client that is having an issue it is VERY helpful for everyone to be on the same page. What seems to get them in the most trouble is when they ask for help and get it from someone who never even bothered to ask them what skills they have taught the dog before they give advice.

    What really puzzles me is why people would get there panties all bunched up because it was suggested to a novice dog trainer trying to train their own dog that they stick to a proven system to better their chance of getting as good of a result as dog and trainer are capable of. When I read all of the advice given to this young man on how to get a dog going on blinds when he has not even taught the dog to handle or even, as far as we know sit on a whistle and the big complaint is why is everyone telling him to stick to a "program" REALLY?

    I hope he does start over and follow Rick Stawski or Mike Lardy so he can learn how one step builds towards another and how these dogs can learn so much if they are given a real chance at understanding what we are asking them to do. I am very glad I started with the $69.99 program as it has really helped me do a better job with the dogs I get a chance to work with. I really hope that I will learn as much in the next 5 years as I have in the last five years and I am really grateful to the folks that poured their hard work into making the $69.99 program so that I did not waste five years stumbling my way through just to get an understanding of what they taught me on their DVD's

    A couple people in this thread have sent the OP a link to a knowlageble Pro, Nationally known, by the name of Farmer.

    That link has an article titled "starting cold blinds."

    Before Mr Farmer starts discussing blinds, he explaines what the pre~requisites are.
    So, the OP got that information very early on, if he chose to read it, like maybe some of you should.

    Its very good.
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  4. #44
    Senior Member TIM DOANE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    A couple people in this thread have sent the OP a link to a knowlageble Pro, Nationally known, by the name of Farmer.

    That link has an article titled "starting cold blinds."

    Before Mr Farmer starts discussing blinds, he explaines what the pre~requisites are.
    So, the OP got that information very early on, if he chose to read it, like maybe some of you should.

    Its very good.
    And its a great article I have read it many times, and it was good advice. I am wondering why you quoted me in your reply?
    Last edited by TIM DOANE; 01-03-2014 at 08:32 PM.
    Tim Doane , Kingseed Kennels
    GRHRCH UH Hunters Marsh King Elijah MNH QAA "Ely"
    GRHRCH Kingseeds Little Miss Dangerous MNH QAA " Stella "
    HRCH Kingseeds Queen Of Grace MH " Hannah "
    Kingseeds She's A Classic " Layla "
    www.kingseedkennels.com

  5. #45
    Senior Member TIM DOANE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    A couple people in this thread have sent the OP a link to a knowlageble Pro, Nationally known, by the name of Farmer.

    That link has an article titled "starting cold blinds."

    Before Mr Farmer starts discussing blinds, he explaines what the pre~requisites are.
    So, the OP got that information very early on, if he chose to read it, like maybe some of you should.

    Its very good.
    So if you said to the op "Before I even consider starting a young dog on blinds I make sure there is a very
    solid foundation in the dog's basic training. This means he is well force broke, collar
    conditioned and has spent a long time mastering the double-T. He should be forced
    from your side, forced en route to the back pile and casting to two sets of overs. The
    first thing I do after completing the double-T is to teach the dog handling and casting
    wagon wheel."
    And then asked him do you know what this means and do you know how to teach all of these skills and his answer was no what would you advise next?
    Tim Doane , Kingseed Kennels
    GRHRCH UH Hunters Marsh King Elijah MNH QAA "Ely"
    GRHRCH Kingseeds Little Miss Dangerous MNH QAA " Stella "
    HRCH Kingseeds Queen Of Grace MH " Hannah "
    Kingseeds She's A Classic " Layla "
    www.kingseedkennels.com

  6. #46
    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    Let's face it, every pro is going to ask about the dogs history. What has been done or not done. Honesty is key, many times the dogs I get the owner says I did X, but it's clear that wasn't finished. Seeing the dog says it all. A good structure is needed, that's the only value I see in videos, outside of that you have to read the dog and only experienced dog people can do that. I know I give Evan crap, perhaps that is unfair, however we are talking about living breathing creatures, unique and individual and every one of them need personal attention. Read the dog in front of you.

    /Paul
    Paul Cantrell
    Black Ice Retrievers
    Marcola OR

    Too many dogs to list (By some Bitch)

    https://www.facebook.com/BlackIceRetrievers
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  7. #47
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    really recommend 2nd edition of Lardy. for building confidence you can set your dog at the blind. Go to the line and call your dog in. Line your dog up and run the blind.

  8. #48
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TIM DOANE View Post
    So if you said to the op "Before I even consider starting a young dog on blinds I make sure there is a very
    solid foundation in the dog's basic training. This means he is well force broke, collar
    conditioned and has spent a long time mastering the double-T. He should be forced
    from your side, forced en route to the back pile and casting to two sets of overs. The
    first thing I do after completing the double-T is to teach the dog handling and casting
    wagon wheel."
    And then asked him do you know what this means and do you know how to teach all of these skills and his answer was no what would you advise next?

    The OP asked for a PROS advice!

    Gooser shouldnt even be gettin involved...

    I think the link to a very knowageble Pro said it all..

    MAYBE since the OP wanted a Pros adive,, and got the direction to a Pros site,, well just maybe he will ask that Pro directly...

    Gooser isnt the one to ask (or give advice) about what HE (Gooser) WOULD DO......

    I have learned!!!! got the scares to proove it!
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  9. #49
    Senior Member TIM DOANE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    The OP asked for a PROS advice!

    Gooser shouldnt even be gettin involved...

    I think the link to a very knowageble Pro said it all..

    MAYBE since the OP wanted a Pros adive,, and got the direction to a Pros site,, well just maybe he will ask that Pro directly...

    Gooser isnt the one to ask (or give advice) about what HE (Gooser) WOULD DO......

    I have learned!!!! got the scares to proove it!
    I do not disagree with that AT ALL. Its great advice. I just think following a program start to finish is the way to go for ANYONE that wants to train their own dog and lacks experience. THAT WAY when the issues come up, AND THEY WILL it is a lot easier to get help. I recommend that novice trainers watch the segment of the training they are currently working on every day before they go train no matter how long they are on that skill, watch it every day. THAT WAY when they ask for help they should at least remember what they have done and in what order. To me it just makes sense. I don't sell DVD's for myself or anyone else and I don't care much for the practice of chasing folks around here doing so for personal gain. I believe the training material I started with GREATLY shortened the learning curve for me and can do the same for everyone else that has the common sense to follow the advice and STICK TO THE PROGRAM. I have stated several times in my past post that getting help from a pro is a VERY GOOD idea.

    I understand that when you get to spend time with a good pro and watch him work you get to see him use a different approach to teach the same skill to different dogs. I know that one approach will not work for every dog, I GET THAT. But every pro I know that is any good follows the same sequence when it comes to teaching the skills that build a good retriever 99% of the time. They have a particular order that they teach things and they stick to it because it works for them and their job depends on it. That is what a "PROGRAM" is, it may be of their own design but it is a "PROGRM" none the less.

    Ask Chris if he could get a dog running blinds buy sticking a bumper on end in the grass at 30 yards when the dog has only been thru mini T and we don't know if it was forced proper or even sits on a whistle yet.

    I think we agree on a lot of this stuff Gooser maybe you thought I was saying all the advice Cody was getting was bad. I was not saying that AT ALL. I was just really hoping someone could help me understand why when folks started telling the op all the one drill easy fix stuff the thread went to "PROGRAM" bashing. What I was telling him is the same thing you did. STUDY some material from someone that has got building a good dog figured out and go from there. Then get help if you need it.

    Have a good day Gooser and if you see Chris soon tell him I said hi.
    Last edited by TIM DOANE; 01-04-2014 at 06:33 AM.
    Tim Doane , Kingseed Kennels
    GRHRCH UH Hunters Marsh King Elijah MNH QAA "Ely"
    GRHRCH Kingseeds Little Miss Dangerous MNH QAA " Stella "
    HRCH Kingseeds Queen Of Grace MH " Hannah "
    Kingseeds She's A Classic " Layla "
    www.kingseedkennels.com

  10. #50
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    Be carefull who you listen to....Being a Pro in a lot of cases simply means that they have taken money for training or handeling Retrievers.

    In the case of Danny Farmer this is far from the case.... If done at the propper time in the the dogs training, the way he outlined , though you may still face some problems, the odds are that they will be less difficult to resolve than if you tried to take shortcuts with the dog.

    john
    "i guess the old saying 'those of us that think we know everything annoy those of you that does' " --bobbyb 9/13/06

    "A Good Dog is a Good Dog"

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