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Thread: Half English half American lab build

  1. #51
    Senior Member Bridget Bodine's Avatar
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    My definition of field dogs is real FT dogs. This dog is about 90 % show at this point, with
    FC AFC The Marathon Man
    and
    AFC Hiwood Shadow
    in the back on the dam side (granted they are 5 generations back) The sire of this dog is a CH/MH . My feeling is blending gets you a better looking dog ,with better coat and yes, tail and yes structure with a higher desire and trainability than MOST show only bred dogs.
    I have a Grady son whom I absolutely adore, he is smart , trainable and a pretty decent marker but he is not the prettiest dog , he is high in the rear and as a really long tail and has hound dog ears, and a long pointy nose . When I breed him to a CH/MH/QAA x SH bitch I have (who made the cut in her large class at the Potomac last year), I hope that in the coming generations, I can start to improve on some of the structural flaws and keep a good portion of the drive. The bitch is pretty darn driven too! To EACH their own!!! I like a fairly substantial , ATHLETIC , more blocky headed (with proper length of muzzle) dog, and that is what my customers like.
    I recently sent a finished FC bred bitch to my guide friend in South Jersey. She is doing great on geese , and gets REALLY cold on water. She does not have a great coat and not an once of extra meat on her bones ...she is not going to work out for him and he wants one of my upcoming blended pups
    BB
    Sight To Sea Labradors
    Southern Cross at Sight to Sea SH "Crosby" (by NAFC FC AFC Cody Cut a Lean Grade)
    Tealwood's Willing at Sight to Sea JH ( by CH I am Able)
    Briarglen's Running on Faith JH (by FC Fish River's Out of the Park)
    Glendair's Come Home to the Sea ( By Ch Topform's Edward MH, QAA)
    Sight To Sea's Take Aim SH (by Sight to Sea's Southern Comfort SH )Aug 23 2003-Feb 2013 Go get em , Man!

    Manager of www.DeCoverlykennels.com

  2. #52
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    I can understand the thought process about it all. Middle of the road not too much of this, not too much of that concept. It's easy to sell because it makes sense to most people.

    I assume you aren't expecting to make show CH or field trial titles with the middle of the road dogs?

  3. #53
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Paul "Happy" Gilmore;1176196

    I assume you aren't expecting to make show CH or field trial titles with the middle of the road dogs?[/QUOTE]

    Hmm the show probably No, you can't train looks . As for FT who knows, If the dogs got skill, goes out and does it. The performance world, has a reputation for not caring, if the dog looks like a grey-hound or a bus, as long as they can do. Enough time, enough training, enough campaigning, a bit of luck on a certain day and who knows. This is the great thing about performance events, it's in the doing. Heck even those Chessies and Goldens pull it out of the woodwork sometimes j/k
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 01-06-2014 at 12:09 PM.
    "They's Just DAWGS"
    "Hunting is a skill to be learned whether you do it early or late it still needs to be learned"
    "I train dogs, Not papers"

    GMRH HRCH Quick MH (most importantly Duck/Upland Enthusiast)
    MHR HRCH Lakota MH (most importantly Upland/Duck Enthusiast)
    SHR Storm.. the Pup (Beginning Upland & Waterfowl Enthusiast)

  4. #54
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    I have seen some very handsome FT dogs bred by Brad Belmore of Mach Three Kennels out of two of his FC's --Edge and Razor. They consistently turned out extremely good looking high performance pups. Unfortunately Razor has passed on and Brad is no longer breeding Edge, even though she is still running in the games. An example is Ollie below about 8 months. (Click on the thumbnail below to enlarge.)


    Ollie 180sm.jpg
    Last edited by zeus3925; 01-06-2014 at 12:39 PM.
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

  5. #55
    Senior Member polmaise's Avatar
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    This one is a pretty good stamp!
    JakePhotowithCups-9.jpg
    One Shooter One Spaniel One Retriever

  6. #56
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    I just don't see the need for it. If you really want good looks there are plenty of great looking field trial dogs to chose from not to mention, there are many breedings of which to look at to see results. I just don't see the need to put NFC material into a CH. with some hope it will be making better looking dogs. The argument has been made both ways. FT bred for performance so has ruined the "type" and show has bred for "type" and ruined performance. So, along comes this thought to mix the two messes to hope they meet in the middle. Your gravy is too thin, mine is too lumpy. Mix it up and hope that the runny gravy evens out the lumps. Awfully hard to fix gravy when it didn't turn out right in the first place.

  7. #57
    Senior Member Nicole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffrey Towler View Post
    I have no plans to show in AKC show ring. I was refering to the way hound events are held. As far as the standard, yes I agree mine where not bred to the AKC Lab Standard (thank God). Saying that they are not bred to the standard makes them all one breed. So a field lab and a field beagle are the same breed? One hunts in packs for fur, the other is a honed bird machine. How about a Field bred Lab and and a working german shepard, I know which one I would not want to meet in a dark alley.Your out late season goose hunting in MI do you think a field bred English pointer, or a field bred lab would be the better choice. Standards may have there place, but that lab standard needs emergency cpr
    Jeff, I compared retriever to retriever not apples to oranges. And if you thank God that your dogs weren't bred with the breed standard in mind, you shouldn't have any issues if someone says they're completely incorrect for the breed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul "Happy" Gilmore View Post
    Nichole 90% of show labs are a hot mess and this is due to folks saying the same tag line "breeding to the standard". Have you ever watched a WC? Hot mess
    Pauhl, What 90% of show labs do you have personal experience with? I've been to a number of WCs. Seen some nice runs out of show bred dogs and seen some sad.... same with field bred dogs that came.

    I think we'll agree that nobody who's actually competitive in either venue (trials or show) would want to waste a breeding in such a way. On the other hand, 99% of these breedings aren't truly show bred (english) to field bred (american) as much as two "pet bred" labradors bred together.... one of which might have a blockier head so they call it english and the other is fine boned so they call it american.

    As for the show bred lab bash any thread that mentions them quickly becomes... boring. And if you waste all your super clever zingers now, whatever will you talk about when westminster rolls around next month?

  8. #58
    Senior Member Bridget Bodine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul "Happy" Gilmore View Post
    I can understand the thought process about it all. Middle of the road not too much of this, not too much of that concept. It's easy to sell because it makes sense to most people.

    I assume you aren't expecting to make show CH or field trial titles with the middle of the road dogs?
    My Plan is to make the next DUAL CH Labrador. I am 52 yrs old, I figure I have 30 yrs to try and get it done...
    I absolutely do hope to create a dog that gets at least QAA/ CH
    BB
    Sight To Sea Labradors
    Southern Cross at Sight to Sea SH "Crosby" (by NAFC FC AFC Cody Cut a Lean Grade)
    Tealwood's Willing at Sight to Sea JH ( by CH I am Able)
    Briarglen's Running on Faith JH (by FC Fish River's Out of the Park)
    Glendair's Come Home to the Sea ( By Ch Topform's Edward MH, QAA)
    Sight To Sea's Take Aim SH (by Sight to Sea's Southern Comfort SH )Aug 23 2003-Feb 2013 Go get em , Man!

    Manager of www.DeCoverlykennels.com

  9. #59
    Senior Member Jeffrey Towler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicole View Post
    Jeff, I compared retriever to retriever not apples to oranges. And if you thank God that your dogs weren't bred with the breed standard in mind, you shouldn't have any issues if someone says they're completely incorrect for the breed.

    Nicole
    I've known you long enough to know we are never going to agree on these labs.Its not personal.How many times since 1980 has the Labrador Club Of America revised the standard?When they revise the standard, do they ever happen to look at what our FT dogs are required to do?Have you happened to see the January edition of the Retriever News? These Retrievers that compete at the National Open Championship are what should be representative of their respective breeds IMHO .

    Pauhl, What 90% of show labs do you have personal experience with? I've been to a number of WCs. Seen some nice runs out of show bred dogs and seen some sad.... same with field bred dogs that came.

    I think we'll agree that nobody who's actually competitive in either venue (trials or show) would want to waste a breeding in such a way. On the other hand, 99% of these breedings aren't truly show bred (english) to field bred (american) as much as two "pet bred" labradors bred together.... one of which might have a blockier head so they call it english and the other is fine boned so they call it american.

    As for the show bred lab bash any thread that mentions them quickly becomes... boring. And if you waste all your super clever zingers now, whatever will you talk about when westminster rolls around next month?
    I could not have told you when Westminster is held.

  10. #60
    Senior Member windycanyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bridget Bodine View Post
    My Plan is to make the next DUAL CH Labrador. I am 52 yrs old, I figure I have 30 yrs to try and get it done...
    I absolutely do hope to create a dog that gets at least QAA/ CH
    You go girl!!!

    Paul, Come on.... you are at hunt tests so you've seen some very nice blends out there working. Elaine Brock's QAA yellow is a blend. Sonya's sister w/ Fred is a blend (they do play a little in the FT game too, and have done better than most!). Bob Morris has had some nice blends-- one QAA as I recall. Winroc has a QAA. Will they win in the show ring? No, but who ever said a lab is first and foremost, a show dog? There is probably a reason or 2 why our breed wins so few BIS's. Chessies probably don't either...

    Your breed (imo) has been kept more pure for the working aspects overall than so many other retriever breeds, however. Anne

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