The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 50

Thread: Universal Health Care

  1. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Shelbyville, Tn
    Posts
    1,450

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    Some interesting facts. It is easy to see from the graphs that the USA spends probably 2.5 times per capita more than the UK, and about twice as a precent of GDP. The UK pretty much spends less per capita than any other country shown on the graphs. The only country that spends less per capita, but not shown on the graphs is Japan. So, you're taking the one country that spends less than almost any other industrialized country, pointing out the problems they have, and comparing it to MA? The UK has a government system, top to bottom. How much they spend on medical care is decided politically. If the population wanted to spend more, they would surely make sure the politicians did it. But for some reason they don't. They are getting what they ask for.

    And, when you look at what we spend per capita, how can we be surprised to see that it costs $500-700 to cover an individual and $900-1500 to cover a family? Especially when a decent fraction of folks decide to opt out of carrying insurance, then get sick, and declare bankruptcy & don't pay their bills, dumping the cost on the rest of us who pay.

    It boggles my mind that conservatives defend the right of folks to not carry coverage. If they want to opt out, they should opt out all the way. If they get sick, let them pay up front. If they can't pay up front, kick them to the curb.






    Buzz, Buzz, Buzz. While your post would not qualify for a Pinocchio award, it certainly is deserving of a Slick Willy Award. Your post of the Cost of healthcare as a % of GDP THIS TIME begins with 1970, which conviently leaves out the period of time PRIOR to 1970. I am sure you remember the graph that YOU posted showing that the cost of healthcare in this country was at a relatively stable 5% UNTIL the gov. got involved with Medicare and Medicaid. A time when healthcare began to simultaneously increase with the gov. involvement. Like almost all progressives, you believe that the gov. can FIX the problems for which they were ultimately responsible. Nothing like assuming that the gov can fix a problem that it caused IN THE FIRST PLACE. Keeps the gov. bureaucrats in a perpetual job.

    Personally your post concerning infant mortality has to be the sickest of all. While the numbers may be accurate, it fails to take into consideration that there are far more invivo and invitro fertilizations which inviarably create more multiple births than normal. It is also a fact that here we go to great effort to see that a fetus becomes an infant even though the risk of their survival is a much greater risk.

    You say "your mind is boggled". No it is not. You just choose to ignore those facts that don't support your conclusions. I challenged you many times to re-post the cost of healthcare as a % of GDP and you chose not to. Takes little reasoning to figure out why you chose to post another graph LEAVING OUT THE PERIOD PRIOR TO 1965.

  2. #12
    Senior Member swampcollielover's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    MO
    Posts
    1,528

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mngundog View Post
    Once again your comprehension skills are lacking, which is so typical of your type.
    mn...speaking of comprehension....my original post that you referred to was regarding the Republicans and Libertarians....why are you talking about Democrats...

    Like most Liberals, your reading skills and no doubt, your listening and learning skills are limited by you brain illness called Liberalism-itus!

  3. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    SW Minnesota
    Posts
    1,989

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by swampcollielover View Post
    mn...speaking of comprehension....my original post that you referred to was regarding the Republicans and Libertarians....why are you talking about Democrats...

    Like most Liberals, your reading skills and no doubt, your listening and learning skills are limited by you brain illness called Liberalism-itus!
    The line between Republicans and Democrats is very, very narrow, there seems to be a great distance between the Libertarians and the Republicans. I think it was funny when you said we need to "Thank God for Republicans and Libertarians", when the Republican politicians are all about big spending, big government, total control of the population and the Libertarians are the exact opposite. I added the Democrats into the mix because I feel that they are no better, or IMO worse, then the Republican party. If you are going to argue that the Republicans are leap years different than the Democrats, please show me where in the last 40 years that they made drastic cuts in the size of government, spending etc, and please tell me why they ran a man for President why believed in gun grabbing and socialized health care.

  4. #14
    Senior Member swampcollielover's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    MO
    Posts
    1,528

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mngundog View Post
    The line between Republicans and Democrats is very, very narrow, there seems to be a great distance between the Libertarians and the Republicans. I think it was funny when you said we need to "Thank God for Republicans and Libertarians", when the Republican politicians are all about big spending, big government, total control of the population and the Libertarians are the exact opposite. I added the Democrats into the mix because I feel that they are no better, or IMO worse, then the Republican party. If you are going to argue that the Republicans are leap years different than the Democrats, please show me where in the last 40 years that they made drastic cuts in the size of government, spending etc, and please tell me why they ran a man for President why believed in gun grabbing and socialized health care.
    mn...When comparing political parties you cannot limit the comparison to only spending. Even if you only want to talk spending, you have to look at what happened during the time they were in office and who controlled Congress, all of this plays into the discussion.

    That being said, I have seen your posts and I know you are a thinking persons, so I also know that you understand the differences between the parties and the history behind them. You also have to look at the Tea Party impact in the last two elections, a breath of hope. But if you really want to limit our discussion to the level of spending then compare Obamas spending to all administrations before him. My key point here is that under Obama we have spent more than all the prior administrations before him combined! Today's threat clearly, is a group of Marxist Democrats that have taken over the democratic party, the Senate, the Presidency, and may take over the House.....if this happens...it is game over!

  5. #15
    Senior Member Henlee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    797

    Default

    A talking head on some show I don't remember made a point that did stick with me. He said that both countries limit care, In Britton it is done by waiting for service and in the United States it is done by money.
    During break time at obedience school, two dogs were talking.
    One said to the other..."The thing I hate about obedience school is you learn ALL this stuff you will never use in the real world."

  6. #16
    Senior Member swampcollielover's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    MO
    Posts
    1,528

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Henlee View Post
    A talking head on some show I don't remember made a point that did stick with me. He said that both countries limit care, In Britton it is done by waiting for service and in the United States it is done by money.
    Yep...Free Market Capitalism (He who works hardest and/or smartest gets more) vs. Socialism....(Put is all in a bucket and give even shares to all...except the leaders)

  7. #17
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Watford, ONT
    Posts
    3,269

    Default

    I found this information online and thought it might be of interest to your discussion.

    The proportion of Canada’s gross domestic product (GDP) spent on health care will reach 11.6% this year 2012—down from 11.7% in 2011 and the all-time high of 11.9% in 2010. Hospitals (29.2%), drugs (15.9%) and physician services (14.4%) continue to account for the largest shares of health dollars. from the Canadian Institute for Health Information.
    HRCH Scaupgetters Tarnation QAA
    HR Blackie 2 CGN, WCI
    Metras's Hashtag Mickey


    "Knowing how important right timing is in accomplishing right actions"
    Uncle Ray

  8. #18
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    6,684

    Default

    Mary Ann, looking at it by percentage could be somewhat deceptive. I believe that Canada has had substantial GDP growth due to the tar sands oil production. So, just using the percentage info may not indicate the increase in costs over time.
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
    "Know in your heart that all things are possible. We couldn't conceive of a miracle if none ever happened." -Libby Fudim

    ​I don't use the PM feature, so just email me direct at the address shown above.

  9. #19
    Senior Member luvmylabs23139's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    3,741

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Henlee View Post
    A talking head on some show I don't remember made a point that did stick with me. He said that both countries limit care, In Britton it is done by waiting for service and in the United States it is done by money.
    The UK also does it by not providing the same follow up care/rehab. My Aunt had a hip replacement last year. She is in her early 60's and made sure she did it while she felt she could do the best rehab on her own so to speak. She is 11 years younger than my mom. She had a hip replacement was sent home after 2 days and given a list of stuff to do on her own. No nothing! As soon as stiches were out she got herself in the pool, etc. All at her cost not the NHC system.
    Hihope Hiland Heathen of Perth CD, RE, CGC, TDI

  10. #20
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    6,684

    Default

    Luvy, this could explain how the costs are kept down, i.e. by simply not reporting certain costs that may be reported in the US or other countries.

    I am still stymied by the lifespan data though. I have read before about how different countries report infant mortality, and why the US comes out lower in that stat than it likely should if the same criteria were applied to all the countries.

    I don't know how they could change the definition of death in an older person though. Does US lifestyle predispose us to a shorter lifespan? For example, the "Mediterranean diet" has been explored as a possible adjunct to longer lifespan. Is the difference in lifespan between the US and other countries higher on the list statistically significant? Does cause of death skew the lifespan results in some way? Could we gain more insightful information by looking at the survival rates for various diseases that can be terminal? For example, do prostate cancer victims die younger/older in the US v. UK? v. Canada? Do heart disease patients take better care of themselves in some countries because they know that their health care options may not be optimum beyond a certain age? How much care is given outside the state-run system in various countries? I recall the video about the FL hospital that was giving expensive dialysis care to an illegal immigrant patient, and their own country simply would not take their citizen back. Similar stories came from another city hospital in NY or some other northern location as well.

    It would seem that there are a lot of contributing variables that could impact the lifespan statistics.
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
    "Know in your heart that all things are possible. We couldn't conceive of a miracle if none ever happened." -Libby Fudim

    ​I don't use the PM feature, so just email me direct at the address shown above.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •