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Thread: Universal Health Care

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    Buzz, there is probably no "perfect" approach.

    However, it would have been much better to treat the problems, rather than take apart the whole system. At least if the approach turned out badly, it would be easier to fix one part of the system than keep taking a Rube Goldberg approach to a much larger, very complex delivery system.

    Why not first approach the pre-existing conditions with some kind of a risk pool, and get it to work by tweeking that one thing to find the best working model? The O-care "temporary" risk pool was not working out actuarily. They found they ran out of money quickly, even though the enrollment was much lower than expected. It might have been smart to get the data and experience from that early part of the law before launching the mammouth part of the law.

    The pre-existing conditions issue seemed to be the biggest hot button for most people who favored O-care. So why not try to solve that first? That could have provided the insights as to how this problem could integrate with the rest of the system that already served the vast majority quite well.

    Meanwhile, one could have been working on the overall Medicaid program ... what works there and what doesn't. O-care is putting more people into the Medicaid system ... a system that suffers from lack of quality care (due to low reimbursements and low provider participation), not to mention the waste and fraud. Wouldn't it be a good idea to fix that stumbling system before putting more millions of patients into it?

    If you have a flat tire, you don't have to replace the whole car. However, it also doesn't help to replace a tire with another tire that is flat, or try and re-design the car so it won't get a flat tire. Though they have designed tires that will run flat ... but they are expensive.)

    I don't make this an R or a D thing ... a bad idea is a bad idea. Both parties have plenty of them.
    When the govt is trying to run something, they don't try to fix pieces. The old saying is you eat an elephant one bite at a time. The govt wants to eat the elephant in one bite. That's why trying to fix bits and pieces of this whole fiasco, would never fly. It would be much easier for lobbyists to,(insurance companies), to fight the small pieces such as the pre-existing conditions clause. So by eating the elephant in one bite, there are too many pieces for them to lobby against, therefore making it easier for the govt to push it through. That's my opinion anyway. I'm sure someone with special interests in this will correct my opinion. Sometimes I guess it is good to work for someone else rather than owning your own business. I am fortunate that my employer offers good, affordable insurance and don't have to deal with the exchange and all of that mess.

  2. #32
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shinyhead View Post
    When the govt is trying to run something, they don't try to fix pieces. The old saying is you eat an elephant one bite at a time. The govt wants to eat the elephant in one bite. That's why trying to fix bits and pieces of this whole fiasco, would never fly. It would be much easier for lobbyists to,(insurance companies), to fight the small pieces such as the pre-existing conditions clause. So by eating the elephant in one bite, there are too many pieces for them to lobby against, therefore making it easier for the govt to push it through. That's my opinion anyway. I'm sure someone with special interests in this will correct my opinion. Sometimes I guess it is good to work for someone else rather than owning your own business. I am fortunate that my employer offers good, affordable insurance and don't have to deal with the exchange and all of that mess.
    I'm really glad you have a good health insurance solution!

    Now consider this...you get laid off from your current job and have to work for a small employer or yourself and can't get insurance because the little company does not offer insurance and you have to get it on your own but that is a problem because you have a condition they don't want to insure. Bottomline you are out of luck.

    Now because of the mandate to get insurance you don't have to worry anymore because you can get insurance in any situation and no longer have to worry about losing your life saving paying medical bills because you don't have insurance.

    Just remember you could be that guy!

    EMPATHY - something few on thith forum understand!

  3. #33
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    Glad this works for you, menmon. I still think that we do not know whether the math will prove out in the end.

    Was wondering about the young people who HAVE signed up for the exchanges. We have no info on whether they are the younger people who are the healthy ones (needed to balance out the older, sicker people). What if the young ones that have signed up are the ones who are NOT healthy, i.e. the ones who have illnesses and need the coverage most. Age, alone, is not going to break the bank. Healthy, young people often opt out of health insurance even before there was ACA.

    I am now on Medicare. My rates increase every year. If you fail to join the first year you are eligible, you enter at a higher rate than if you had entered in the first year.

    I haven't yet had to find out what treatments Medicare will or will not pay for ... at what point any affliction I develop will be considered not compliant with the cost-benefit ratios.

    Yes, private insurance can present the same problem. We have had many examples of how difficult it can be to deal with an insurance company on issues like that (treatments being covered or not covered). I cannot imagine that it will be less difficult to wrangle with a govt bureaucrat over these same issues. Also, insurance companies have been taken to court for their screw-ups or malfeasance of their powers;but if you are contending with a govt program and bureaucrat, what leverage will there be?

    While we do know that your options in ACA are working out for you, we do not yet have broad, documented knowledge of how ACA is working out for the majority of people affected by it.
    I'm glad you are on medicare and have a healthcare solution!

    Now if you were not and had a preexistion condition you might get off your high horse!

    I should be bit@#ing about all the medicare insurance I have to pay so you can get the free ride. Don't tell me that you paid for it while you were working, because you did not pay near enough to cover the cost if you get sick

  4. #34
    Senior Member M&K's Retrievers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by menmon View Post
    I'm glad you are on medicare and have a healthcare solution!

    Now if you were not and had a preexistion condition you might get off your high horse!

    I should be bit@#ing about all the medicare insurance I have to pay so you can get the free ride. Don't tell me that you paid for it while you were working, because you did not pay near enough to cover the cost if you get sick
    And what have I been telling you about what's going to happen with ACA. Not enough healthy enrollees to support the program hence government bailouts of insurance companies and eventually complete government takeover of the healthcare system which is what they wanted all along.
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  5. #35
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by menmon View Post
    I'm glad you are on medicare and have a healthcare solution!

    Now if you were not and had a preexistion condition you might get off your high horse!

    I should be bit@#ing about all the medicare insurance I have to pay so you can get the free ride. Don't tell me that you paid for it while you were working, because you did not pay near enough to cover the cost if you get sick
    You have easily jumped to conclusions, menmon.

    First, when I had employer insurance with a small company (about 10 employees, including the owners), I was the one in charge of selecting it. I specifically looked for the group provider that would allow employees to "convert" to private policy if they left this employer. I paid myself, as a self-employed individual, on that "converted" health insurance for 20 years. This was intended, and did, protect ALL the employees from being left without a job and a pre-existing condition that would prevent them from getting private insurance. Since I had been licensed in life/health insurance, I had some background knowledge that some other people might not have had, and maybe some empathy for those I had seen get left without health insurance.

    I'd venture that there might be many employer group policies that would allow "conversion" to individual policies. The premium will be higher, yes, but it would help those with pre-existing conditions as their coverage will not be interrupted. Mike would know better if that has become less available since back then.

    While it was sometimes difficult to pay that premium over the years, I took responsibility for doing so, and gave up some other things, even though I was fortunate to be healthy and never exceeded my annual deductible.

    You may be contributing to Medicare ... as I did since it's beginning and that doesn't stop while you're still working after age 65. I also pay an additional $104/mo for Part B coverage and always will. Those premiums go up each year, even when SS benefits don't. Not much, you might say, but more than many Medicaid recipients may pay. For seniors on SS less fortunate than I am, that is not such a "free ride."

    I also carry a Medicare supplement which may not be needed now, but might be if I get a catastrophic illness, not unlikely as I get older. I also carry additional nursing home insurance so I won't be a strain on the Medicaid system if I ever have to spend extended time in a nursing home (the cost of which is astronomical as I learned when my mother was in a nursing home for two years). I started paying on that when I was about 45 since I knew that I could get the better premium the younger I started with it.

    Over the years I have done every type of job from washing dishes, to cleaning houses, to retail, to legal secretary, to ultimately being a general manager for a small OTC company later sold to a big-pharma company.

    I did take riding lessons in college, but I prefer driving my 10-yr-old Toyota Highlander Perhaps you ride horses more than I do?
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by menmon View Post
    I'm really glad you have a good health insurance solution!

    Now consider this...you get laid off from your current job and have to work for a small employer or yourself and can't get insurance because the little company does not offer insurance and you have to get it on your own but that is a problem because you have a condition they don't want to insure. Bottomline you are out of luck.

    Now because of the mandate to get insurance you don't have to worry anymore because you can get insurance in any situation and no longer have to worry about losing your life saving paying medical bills because you don't have insurance.

    Just remember you could be that guy!

    EMPATHY - something few on thith forum understand!
    I think the pre-existing condition clause is a good thing. other parts not so much. Forcing people that are beyond child bearing years to have maternity coverage is not good. I don't like most of what Luvy has to say, but she has valid points on things that she and her husband are forced to have coverage for. We should be able to choose what coverage we want/need. I do think that forcing everybody to carry some type of insurance is good, just don't think that people should be forced to take coverage that they don't need. Kinda like auto insurance, you have to have liability insurance, but full coverage is up to you, unless your bank or finance company says so in the loan agreement.

  7. #37
    Senior Member swampcollielover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by menmon View Post
    I'm glad you are on medicare and have a healthcare solution!

    Now if you were not and had a preexistion condition you might get off your high horse!

    I should be bit@#ing about all the medicare insurance I have to pay so you can get the free ride. Don't tell me that you paid for it while you were working, because you did not pay near enough to cover the cost if you get sick
    MM...you never go beyond the obvious in your thinking/ comments. Most would agree that the health system was broken! Making some form of insurance available to those with pre-exiting problems was something both Dem's and Repub's agreed on! But in typical Democratic ways, they did not fix just that, they had to take over the whole dang healthcare industry, more than 20% of the GNP! This move by Obama and his cronies, was not a healthcare fix, it was a power grab by a Secular Progessive Marxist! And they totally screwed that up after having over 3 years to get it right.....!

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampcollielover View Post
    MM...you never go beyond the obvious in your thinking/ comments. Most would agree that the health system was broken! Making some form of insurance available to those with pre-exiting problems was something both Dem's and Repub's agreed on! But in typical Democratic ways, they did not fix just that, they had to take over the whole dang healthcare industry, more than 20% of the GNP! This move by Obama and his cronies, was not a healthcare fix, it was a power grab by a Secular Progessive Marxist! And they totally screwed that up after having over 3 years to get it right.....!

    I disagree with the notion that they tok over the whole healthcare industry. Primarily what they did was health insurance reform.
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  9. #39
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    The housing market was also reformed in the 90's and this house of cards came crashing down in 2007-2009.

    If the ACA does go into complete implementation this, pie in the sky, will also fall to the ground in 10-15 years. Then the current president, not now but then, will get the blame.

    The main problem is, with our current level of debt, the intervals between these events are becoming shorter and shorter. Also, the bullets left to alleviate these problems are very few. A world currency is one major bullet left but most refer to this as conspiracy theory thinking.

    Dan

  10. #40
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Storts View Post
    The housing market was also reformed in the 90's and this house of cards came crashing down in 2007-2009.

    If the ACA does go into complete implementation this, pie in the sky, will also fall to the ground in 10-15 years. Then the current president, not now but then, will get the blame.

    The main problem is, with our current level of debt, the intervals between these events are becoming shorter and shorter. Also, the bullets left to alleviate these problems are very few. A world currency is one major bullet left but most refer to this as conspiracy theory thinking.

    Dan
    Global currency not going to happen....just look at the EURO and you will see that it will never get off the ground. Just rhetoric from the fear mongers.

    That will be a democrat administration taking blame when in fact it was very successful

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