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Legal Types: What Are my Chances of winning???

9K views 52 replies 29 participants last post by  waterdog711 
#1 · (Edited)
I know I shouldn't post this but I'm going to any way...(Never been accused of being too bright) This may get long........

Animal Enforcement showed up today. (again) It seems that I have a neighbor that does not approve of me airing my dogs, across the road from their house. I have been warned (in writing) for letting my dog run "At Large" and "Defecating On Public Property".

On the surface it would appear that I am at fault. However, Said neighbor does NOT own the property in question!!! Neither do I. BUT I do have written permission from the owner to Train, exercise my dogs and, use it as I see fit. As well as my guests.

The officer was going to issue me another warning but I insisted he write me up. So since he saw my dog cross the road without a leash he is citing me for "not having my dog contained" He is only issuing a warning for defecating. (Dog got stage fright and couldn't perform) He does however have a very nice picture of my dog taking a dump under a tree.

The neighbor will not identify themselves to me or Animal Enforcement. (Passive Aggressive Generation)

I'm going to get my day in court: The question I think depends on the definition of "Restraint" Never does the ordinance say "leash" or "Contained" But must be restrained.

My argument is I am that restraint... Nowhere does it say "Physical Restraint"

So what are my chances and what Free :) advice would offer??

I'm going to paste the ordinance as well as a link to the whole ordinance.

1.04 Defecation Upon Public or Private Property

A. It shall be unlawful for any owner of an animal to cause, suffer or allow such
animal to soil, defile, defecate on or commit any nuisance on any street, sidewalk,
passageway or other public property or on any private property without the prior
express permission of the owner of such property

A. The owner of an animal must immediately remove any feces deposited by the
owner’s animal upon any public or private property other than that of the owner
and dispose of same in a proper and sanitary manner.


Owner to Keep Animal Under Restraint

A. The owner of an animal shall keep his or her animal under restraint at all times
and shall not permit such animal to run at large in the Township.

A. On property of the owner, an animal must be so controlled or restrained as to
prevent the animal from attacking or threatening any person legitimately coming
onto the property or being on any sidewalk, street or lot adjacent to the property.

http://www.millcreektownship.com/Portals/0/pdf/ordinances/ord_00_15.pdf

Thank you, Randy

P.S. I feel I don't need a leash and don't have to pick up the poop...What say you??
 
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#37 ·
Just an up date: Since many of you had offered help/Ideas/opinions/ and criticism I thought it only proper to report back with the results....And thank you for your input!!!!

First a couple of points for clarity. The OP was written in the heat of the moment (less than 24 hours from citation) I omitted some details to try and keep it short and to the point.

1) As far as the condition of the property; It is semi rural, 1 acre +/- and maintained like I would any other "aring/exercise yard". You're entitled to your opinions on that.

2) Although I insisted the L.E.O. write the citation there was NOTHING I could have done to prevent it. ( I found out post fact) It seems that the complaints were going to the township supervisors, Chief of police, AND the animal control office.....He (LEO) had to do something....(I believe he made the wrong choice, but we already know that)

Although I am not an attorney I know that "Anybody that represents themselves has a fool for a client". (unknown) That wasn't going to be me.

So,I retained the services of one our local ambulance chasers (The guys that advertise on tv you know the type...Gunslingers )

Once again to try and keep it short, I'll give the 30,000 foot version.

We get to the Court House. (Municipal building. Read small town) My counsel and LEO go behind closed doors for a discussion....It is a somewhat long discussion 15-20 minutes.

After hearing most of my defense LEO offered a Plea......Reduced to yada,yada, Counsel says "We are not going to plea to anything"....I had told counsel that if I lost I was prepared to appeal. No compromises.

About that time the Judge walks into the room and says "Failure to keep a gog contained"! "What are we all doing here this morning"? Judge goes on to ask LEO if he has ever had any problems with me in the past??? Leo starts to go on about warning, phone calls, and stammering etc.etc. Judge says that was a yes or no question.....Response then, NO. Judge,, Thank you.

Judge tells counsel to bring his client into the courtroom. (Counsel tells me "you do the listening" I'll do the talking") We enter and sit. Judge rambles about dog law cases he's seen. Bad out comes ect.ect. Counsel goes over Pa. law and local ordinance.......

NOT GUILTY.. No laws violated.


Most people I guess would of paid the $50.00 fine and been done with it.....

Sometimes you just have to take a stand.........Or Not...........Your choice.

Thanks for listening.

Randy
 
#40 ·
You do know you really haven't won anything don't you? You may become a target. So if your neighbor still has the bull's-eye on your back, I might be trying to do something to suck up to the neighbor.

but, I have always enjoyed clients like you. They never listen to what you tell them. And they keep coming back even though I don't give frequent flyer miles. :p
 
#41 ·
Targets azz, the neighbor would get some flaming dog $hit on the porch to stomp out. I could/would make them so miserable they rue the day they started their $hit blizzard. Had one just like them and they were fun to play with.
good for you randy
 
#43 ·
I ran into the same problem a few years back. The
animal control officer said that my dog was not tethered I had his e collor on him.
I told the judge if he would like I could put the E collar on him and see if I could make him do what I wanted.
My argument was the dog was tethered just like a kid with a cell phone or pager.
 
#47 · (Edited)
But that attitude has backfired on me a time or two.
yep. Especially now a days. Video cams that can be strategically placed around your property that can be monitored from your very own computer. And videotaped. And it puts the Chicago PD in the position that they have to cite my lovely neighbors who keep running into my garage door and damaging it to the point it now has to be replaced. Now they have to do something about it. It is called criminal damage to property. And then there is the condo building behind me who likes to dump their snow on my property. This is also illegal in the city of Chicago. Now, because they refused to cooperate and be a good neighbor, they are also getting fined and ticketed. And, their building is being watched. And did I mention they have to reimburse me for the amount of money that this cost me to have the extra snow remote for my property? Trust me, putting a big snow pile in front of their garage doors and taking a hose to it in the middle of the night seemed like great fun.

Sometimes taking care of things the legal way can be fun as well. And, I am not getting arrested for arson for setting fire to something that you throw on a neighbor's porch. That is very illegal no matter where you come from. And Marvin S, you have always just been a cantankerous guy. I have no comment for you. :D

He (or she) who laughs last, laughs best regards.
 
#46 ·
Well done RND! There is no reason to be bullied by some coward hiding behind anonymity. If you don't take a stand then you basically agree to be a victim. While I agree with the idea that avoiding contact with law enforcement limits potential conflicts ... Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do... had my share of run ins with neighbor complaints about my dogs barking (but then hounds are good at it) �� Luckily the aco's are pretty reasonable here.... well that and being friends with the sheriff didn't hurt ��


Don't really understand this passive aggressive culture that cannot mind their own business.... sayn


Hive five!
 
#48 ·
The days of flamin' poo are over for me, that went out with the days of the local sheriff taking your beer and telling you to stay of the "hard surface roads" , but it's fun to reminisce .

If your neighbors think your crazy from the start they will leave you alone, but crazy in the country is different than crazy in city limits. I havent lived in city limits for 18 years ,so I'd have a hard time making the adjustment of being neighborly.
 
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