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Thread: Silver Labs?

  1. #191
    Senior Member SloppyMouth's Avatar
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    Let's take the argument that the silver is caused by a weim cross. So what?

    If we look at the Dalmatian/pointer backcross project that sought to correct uric acid production in Dalmatians, it was generally accepted that by the seventh generation after outcrossing, the dogs were in effect purebred Dalmatians again -- and healthier than before.

    http://www.dalmatianheritage.com/abo...h_research.htm

    So, if weims were crossed in at some point (not saying they were), big deal...at what point would they be considered purebred Labs again?

    If you say 'never,' regardless of number of generations, phenotype, temperament, et al., you're ignoring the evolution of purebred dogs wholesale.

  2. #192
    Senior Member SloppyMouth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by afdahl View Post
    I think the main thing was that it is a misconception to assume that color is independent of all other traits.

    Amy Dahl
    I think that was pretty well illustrated in the Russian fox domestication project, which solved the riddle of how dogs came to have so many different coat types despite being descended from gray wolves. I.e., the same gene that controls tameness affects coat color, pattern, etc.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesticated_silver_fox

  3. #193
    Senior Member Jerry Beil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitty View Post
    [/B]

    Since when is this the definition of a breed? Scientists do not even agree on the definition of a species.

    So do you think we should breed out the recessives that lead to Dudleys?

    Or how about we breed out the recessive genes that lead to the dogs being too tall, or too short? How about those recessives that occasionally show up and produce white patches or brindles?

    If you are going to throw out silvers, then you need to cull all the labs out there that don't meet the standard in other ways.

    Mine has got a white on her foot. Uh oh.
    Mine has a little white spot on her chin. The other one is god forbid yellow!

    Not suggesting that we can eliminate all of the undesirable/non conforming traits, or that this should even be the primary consideration when breeding, but it should be a consideration. If you were crossing your white footed dog with my white chinned dog and trying to get a line of polka-dotted labs then you would be damaging the breed because you're not breeding a dog for the positive traits that make the breed better, but rather you're intentionally trying to breed dogs that are contrary to the standard. Would you breed a brindle? Perhaps if the dog was so strong otherwise that the positive characteristics that dog could contribute to the gene pool were a net plus, but otherwise I'd think no, not ever. And it would be wrong and damaging to the breed to intentionally breed brindle to brindle etc to get a line of "special rare brindle labs".

    The idea of a finished or completed breed isn't something that's possible for a number of reasons, but it's a valid concept for this discussion, and as a target when breeding. As a rule it's not a good idea to breed dogs that have disqualifying traits, and it's absolutely not a good idea to breed dogs to intentionally perpetuate non conforming traits as the primary goal.
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  4. #194
    Senior Member Sharon Potter's Avatar
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    It's not about breeding recessives out as much as it's about not breeding them in.
    Sharon Potter

    www.redbranchkennels.net

    Chesapeake Bay Retrievers...too many to list.

    Team Huntsmith

  5. #195
    Senior Member SloppyMouth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharon Potter View Post
    It's not about breeding recessives out as much as it's about not breeding them in.
    What if they were, in fact, there from the beginning -- from the St. John's water dog and/or Newfoundland? Almost all retrievers descend from these two dogs.

  6. #196
    Senior Member Sharon Potter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SloppyMouth View Post
    What if they were, in fact, there from the beginning -- from the St. John's water dog and/or Newfoundland? Almost all retrievers descend from these two dogs.
    Almost is the operative word.
    Sharon Potter

    www.redbranchkennels.net

    Chesapeake Bay Retrievers...too many to list.

    Team Huntsmith

  7. #197
    Senior Member SloppyMouth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharon Potter View Post
    Almost is the operative word.
    Okay, the Chessie and the Lab...do Chessies possess the dilute gene?

  8. #198
    Senior Member Sharon Potter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SloppyMouth View Post
    Okay, the Chessie and the Lab...do Chessies possess the dilute gene?
    I'd guess yes, since the "ash" color pops up on rare ocassion, but I don't know if the genetics have been tested for the dd.
    Sharon Potter

    www.redbranchkennels.net

    Chesapeake Bay Retrievers...too many to list.

    Team Huntsmith

  9. #199
    Senior Member DRAKEHAVEN's Avatar
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    Water bucket............................................ ....................................
    Discipline is no excuse for a lack of enthusiasm !!

  10. #200

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    Time for a color split like other breeds do. ACOTBYC Labs

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