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Thread: Newbie- help finding right dog.

  1. #31
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1tulip View Post
    I have a naive question for those reading this thread. How readily can you find a good started dog? Are they plentiful? Why would someone let a dog that has potential go? ...

    Just curious.
    This is an excellent question; there are many answers. The common one is the dog tops out, that might be true in the FT circle. However many people really enjoy training dogs, and just can't keep them all. Oftentimes they will take on a puppy out of a good breeding, with the intention of selling it as a started dog; training brings value to a dog, hunters need dogs that are trained, they don't have the talent to do it themselves or the time. They prefer to buy a good dog that's ready to go. Many pros and amatuers will keep pups out of good breedings to further their own lines, this ensures they get the training up, and don't become pets. I did this with my breeding I kept a pup for me and a pup to sell as a finished dog later, I wanted to ensure both dogs got the training and were able to reach their potential. In ~ a year the pup will make a special someone an excellent dog, hunting, hunt test, whatever they choose to do with it, fully trained, house manners, and ready to go. I only hope he stays in the area so I can watch them working together and hear the stories, see the pictures; Placing a talented dog, with someone who really appreicate the work put into it, is one of the most rewarding aspects of being a trainer.
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 01-12-2014 at 08:37 PM.
    "They's Just DAWGS"
    "Hunting is a skill to be learned whether you do it early or late it still needs to be learned"
    "I train dogs, Not papers"

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    MHR HRCH Lakota MH (most importantly Upland/Duck Enthusiast)
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  2. #32
    Senior Member Sharon Potter's Avatar
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    Some of the dogs I sell as started dogs are dogs that I bred that have come back to me because their owners couldn't keep them for some reason (divorce, health, etc.) and others are dogs people have asked me to evaluate and sell. Some dogs come to me because of issues their owners think are insurmountable (vocal, line manners, etc.) and I fix the dog and then sell it. Sometimes a dog is too much dog for its owner, and sometimes the dog isn't enough dog. In the fall, I rarely have a started or trained dog for more than a few weeks.

    One dog in particular sticks in my mind, a big, handsome male Chessie, with his JH title and a lot of hunting experience and a super disposition. He had plenty of potential to go further, but just hadn't had the opportunity. He was owned by a friend who was having some major health issues and hadn't been able to do much for a couple of years, and I was asked to sell him fast to help pay some of their medical bills. They wanted only $1000 for him....but the fact that he was a four year old with only a JH turned people off....the reason he hadn't titled further didn't matter. The people who did buy him got a heck of a nice dog at a really cheap price.

    Realistically, the dogs I keep are dogs I've chosen for my breeding program and are useful to me when I guide, and there is a limit to the number of personal dogs I have room for. There's also a limit to the number of paid training dogs I can take, and a dog that isn't in paid training can become an income drain pretty quickly since you never recover the cost of training.
    Sharon Potter

    www.redbranchkennels.net

    Chesapeake Bay Retrievers...too many to list.

    Team Huntsmith

  3. #33
    Senior Member Migillicutty's Avatar
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    Really appreciate all the responses to the thread. Sounds like getting with a pro, along with doing some work at a local retriever club is the best starting point. That and reaching out to Dr. Ed. Looks like I am in good shape on resources very close to me which is great.

    It also sounds like when it comes to started vs puppy, that like anything, there are pros and cons to both scenarios. However, if started dog is the route taken there are good dogs available that should meet my needs, as long as I am smart about the decision making process. Much like the horse industry, a dog that is not the right fit for one person or is ready to moved for various reasons could be someone elses superstar.

    Is the general consensus that Angie Becker is the place to start when it comes to trainers in my area? Proximity is definitely a plus.

  4. #34
    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Migillicutty View Post
    Really appreciate all the responses to the thread. Sounds like getting with a pro, along with doing some work at a local retriever club is the best starting point. That and reaching out to Dr. Ed. Looks like I am in good shape on resources very close to me which is great.

    It also sounds like when it comes to started vs puppy, that like anything, there are pros and cons to both scenarios. However, if started dog is the route taken there are good dogs available that should meet my needs, as long as I am smart about the decision making process. Much like the horse industry, a dog that is not the right fit for one person or is ready to moved for various reasons could be someone elses superstar.

    Is the general consensus that Angie Becker is the place to start when it comes to trainers in my area? Proximity is definitely a plus.
    As we have a slightly under one year old puppy and a slightly over one year old started dog we recently purchased, there are definitely advantages to both routes. Whether it is a breeder or someone selling or advising you on a started dog, the key is to find someone knowledgeable about dogs, your wants and needs and whom you can trust. Proximity doesn't hurt at all.

    As others said, there are a lot of reasons folks sell started dogs. Many don't have the ability to make it at the upper levels but would make fine hunting dogs or hunt test dogs. But heck, some very successful FT folks just have certain things they like or don't and will sell otherwise very nice dogs (but they are hard to get if you aren't dialed in, so again making connections with folks who are whom you can trust is important).

    Quote Originally Posted by roseberry View Post

    if you are asking yourself, "why would john sell a dog like this?" call me. 256-599-4996
    For started dogs, this is the first question. Often it is an easy one to answer. Like other have alluded to situations change. Also sometimes folks just get a dog that it really good and it needs to be on a pro's truck to reach its full potential, but that may be out of reach financially. When the dog is in a FT pro's truck the second question is often tougher: "if the dog is so good, why would the pro not get another client to buy it instead of letting it get off the truck?" That is the one that worried me the most. Finally, I let a few pros and serious amateurs I trusted in on what I was looking for and was able to get a very nice one (so far, keeping fingers crossed ).

    I would certainly give John a call, though. If it is the dog I am thinking of, in particular, it is a very nice one.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    You should ask Backwater, he seems to know how to buy good dogs....

    /Paul
    Paul Cantrell
    Black Ice Retrievers
    Marcola OR

    Too many dogs to list (By some Bitch)

    https://www.facebook.com/BlackIceRetrievers
    http://gundog2002.blogspot.com/
    "Helping Hunters Train Their Dogs"

  6. #36
    Super Moderator Vicky Trainor's Avatar
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    Please do not use this thread to advertise your started dog for sale. The Classified forum for Started Dogs has many listings.

    To the OP:

    Word of caution/speaking from personal experience:

    Make sure you have the dog vetted prior to purchase; check to see what the health clearances are on the parents (at least)

    Get something in writing regarding what options you have if a health problem arises shortly after purchasing the dog. Some health problems can be withheld and not apparent just by seeing the dog work a time or two.

    Just like buying a pup....do your homework before purchasing
    Vicky
    RTF Moderator
    http://www.oakdaleretrievers.com/Remembrance.html "You'll Cry"
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    Training is not science, it is art. A blend of this, a measure of that, a deep breath at the appropriate moment and always a loving touch.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun_Dog2002 View Post
    You should ask Backwater, he seems to know how to buy good dogs....

    /Paul
    We are excited that you have vis*ited our site! Black Ice Retriev*ers is home to Labrador Retriev*ers that are fore*most work*ing dogs. The old adage that “a great dog would rather retrieve than eat” cer*tainly holds true for our dogs. Sec*ondly, our dogs are per*sonal hunt*ing com*pan*ions. Our per*sonal dogs are used for upland, water fowl, hunt tests, field tri*als and com*pete as pro*fes*sional tour*na*ment dogs in shoot to retrieve events. We demand the best of our dogs and offer you the same.

    By reading all of the smack on your ads I think you know how to buy...and sell too!

    "This ain't Burger King, you don't get it your way"


    Backwater's Ole' Crow Medicine Show SH "Raven" BLF 7/26/11 (NFC FC AFC Hunter's Run Boo Boo x AFC Beat The Rush)
    Backwater's Gun Powder 'N' Lead "Trigger" BLF 6/30/12 ( FC AFC CJ's Mister T x FC Queen Winhelmina of the Netherlands)
    Backwater's Biker Trash "Scooter" BLM 9/6/2013 (FC AFC Nick of Time Lone Ranger x Good Ideas Windy Retreezer QAA)

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vicky Trainor View Post
    Please do not use this thread to advertise your started dog for sale. The Classified forum for Started Dogs has many listings.

    To the OP:

    Word of caution/speaking from personal experience:

    Make sure you have the dog vetted prior to purchase; check to see what the health clearances are on the parents (at least)

    Get something in writing regarding what options you have if a health problem arises shortly after purchasing the dog. Some health problems can be withheld and not apparent just by seeing the dog work a time or two.

    Just like buying a pup....do your homework before purchasing
    Thank you, very good advise, appreciated!

    "This ain't Burger King, you don't get it your way"


    Backwater's Ole' Crow Medicine Show SH "Raven" BLF 7/26/11 (NFC FC AFC Hunter's Run Boo Boo x AFC Beat The Rush)
    Backwater's Gun Powder 'N' Lead "Trigger" BLF 6/30/12 ( FC AFC CJ's Mister T x FC Queen Winhelmina of the Netherlands)
    Backwater's Biker Trash "Scooter" BLM 9/6/2013 (FC AFC Nick of Time Lone Ranger x Good Ideas Windy Retreezer QAA)

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun_Dog2002 View Post
    You should ask Backwater, he seems to know how to buy good dogs....

    /Paul
    So am I to understand that dogs out of Boo, Ranger, Tiger, Wheezer, ya know those with NFC and FC if front of their names, are poor choices? Perhaps you would agree with a gentleman who was at a seminar I attended when Raven( NFC bred) was just over a year old. He said, "son you got the wrong breeding for this hunt test game" Hymmmmmmmm!!!

    "This ain't Burger King, you don't get it your way"


    Backwater's Ole' Crow Medicine Show SH "Raven" BLF 7/26/11 (NFC FC AFC Hunter's Run Boo Boo x AFC Beat The Rush)
    Backwater's Gun Powder 'N' Lead "Trigger" BLF 6/30/12 ( FC AFC CJ's Mister T x FC Queen Winhelmina of the Netherlands)
    Backwater's Biker Trash "Scooter" BLM 9/6/2013 (FC AFC Nick of Time Lone Ranger x Good Ideas Windy Retreezer QAA)

  10. #40
    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backwater View Post
    We are excited that you have vis*ited our site! Black Ice Retriev*ers is home to Labrador Retriev*ers that are fore*most work*ing dogs. The old adage that “a great dog would rather retrieve than eat” cer*tainly holds true for our dogs. Sec*ondly, our dogs are per*sonal hunt*ing com*pan*ions. Our per*sonal dogs are used for upland, water fowl, hunt tests, field tri*als and com*pete as pro*fes*sional tour*na*ment dogs in shoot to retrieve events. We demand the best of our dogs and offer you the same.

    By reading all of the smack on your ads I think you know how to buy...and sell too!
    Your ability to buy quality dogs is clearly better than your ability to talk smack. That is not my add, that is Chris Smiths. Nice try though, I'll give you a C+ for effort.

    /Paul
    Paul Cantrell
    Black Ice Retrievers
    Marcola OR

    Too many dogs to list (By some Bitch)

    https://www.facebook.com/BlackIceRetrievers
    http://gundog2002.blogspot.com/
    "Helping Hunters Train Their Dogs"

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