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Thread: You can't have war without troops...

  1. #1
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    Default You can't have war without troops...

    This is a very interesting and challenging article that questions what it means to "support our troops". I am not as extreme as this guy but I am a pacifist, I just carry a gun in case I change my mind.

    A couple interesting quotes:

    "I am a supporter of our troops. I believe they are patriots and America’s best. It is not the bravery or skill of our troops that I question; it is the imperial foreign policy which sends them as sacrifices on the altar of political ambition that I question."

    "And as the nineteenth-century Baptist Charles Spurgeon well said:


    If there be anything which this book denounces and counts the hugest of all crimes, it is the crime of war. Put up thy sword into thy sheath, for hath not he said, “Thou shalt not kill,” and he meant not that it was a sin to kill one but a glory to kill a million, but he meant that bloodshed on the smallest or largest scale was sinful."

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/01/l...hout-soldiers/

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    I think that guy can go to hell.
    During break time at obedience school, two dogs were talking.
    One said to the other..."The thing I hate about obedience school is you learn ALL this stuff you will never use in the real world."

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    Well, why?.., that level of discourse (he can go to hell) would make you a great apologist for a liberal or a neocon, but what bothered you about it. There are different levels of pacifism and he is challenging soldiers to not fight if there is no true reason. If you are a soldier in the military and are sent to do something you think is wrong, do you follow orders (and use the excuse of every Nazi "I was just following orders") or do you stand up for your beliefs?

    But honestly, the response of "that guy can go to hell" is annoying and unintelligent. Even he, who is a pacifist, would not say that to a soldier. I hope you realize that you may be hanging out for eternity with this guy in heaven if Christianity is what you profess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mudminnow View Post

    "I am a supporter of our troops. I believe they are patriots and America’s best. It is not the bravery or skill of our troops that I question; it is the imperial foreign policy which sends them as sacrifices on the altar of political ambition that I question."

    A couple of years ago, a RTF Potus poster once said, "politicians are no friends of the military". Truer words never spoken. Politicians put forth false assumptions in order to scare the populace in justifying their actions.

    Our Constituition calls for Defense of the Nation and not international political ambition, yet the so-called Conservatives disregard what out Founders intented!

    Nothing makes me angrier than seeing our fallen soldiers and those missing limbs or disfigured because of self-serving politicians. Many who are bought and paid for by the military industrial complex. A situation Pres. Eisenhower warned us of.
    Last edited by Franco; 01-15-2014 at 08:49 AM.
    It's time we abandon our party affiliations and rather than being good Dems or good Repubs we all become good Americans. MJH345

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    I see what you are doing there. Keep having fun.
    During break time at obedience school, two dogs were talking.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudminnow View Post
    Well, why?.., that level of discourse (he can go to hell) would make you a great apologist for a liberal or a neocon, but what bothered you about it. There are different levels of pacifism and he is challenging soldiers to not fight if there is no true reason. If you are a soldier in the military and are sent to do something you think is wrong, do you follow orders (and use the excuse of every Nazi "I was just following orders") or do you stand up for your beliefs?

    But honestly, the response of "that guy can go to hell" is annoying and unintelligent. Even he, who is a pacifist, would not say that to a soldier. I hope you realize that you may be hanging out for eternity with this guy in heaven if Christianity is what you profess.
    If your employer tells you to do something you think is wrong, do you tell them " I am not doing that "? That makes you insubordinate and subject to termination. Military, right, wrong or indifferent, you follow orders and do your job, just like working for an employer. After all, the military is your employer that you VOLUNTARILY, signed up for. You could refuse to follow orders and get put in jail if you think that will help you. Good luck getting a job when you get out of jail/military. HR mgr. " Why were you dishonorably discharged from the military?" Person being interviewed, "they told me to do something that I didn't want to do." HR mgr. "Ok, we'll call you and let you know our decision."

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    Without checking, I imagine that was written by Laurence Vance. He has 4 degrees including a theology degree. Reading his work on Lew's site was an eye opening experience for me with regard to war from a Christian perspective. There's also a speech on YouTube he gave a few years ago titled, "War and Christianity".

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    You are correct cpj, very eye opening indeed. And shinyhead, your post kind of disturbs me. It seems like what you are suggesting is that if your employer asks you to do something you know is wrong, you should do it anyway because it is your job.

    Am I understanding you correctly?

    And Henlee, this is a could be a great debate that you could add insight too, but keep throwing cheap shots if you want to

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    Quote Originally Posted by mudminnow View Post
    You are correct cpj, very eye opening indeed. And shinyhead, your post kind of disturbs me. It seems like what you are suggesting is that if your employer asks you to do something you know is wrong, you should do it anyway because it is your job.

    Am I understanding you correctly?

    And Henlee, this is a could be a great debate that you could add insight too, but keep throwing cheap shots if you want to
    As long as it doesn't jeapordize someone's safety or break any laws. Yes, you do what your employer tells you to do. If you don't like it, I guess you could quit, or tell them no and get fired. How do you determine what is wrong? Personal belief makes it wrong? Illegal is an entirely different scenario. Just because it goes against your personal beliefs, doesn't mean that the employer can't tell you to do it. You can respectfully disagree with what the boss tells you to do, but you ultimately follow orders.

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    Let me give you a different perspective...my dad was a decorated WWII veteran,some would even call him a hero based on the medals the pinned on his uniform..My dad was also a very devout Christian. he took no pleasure in recounting the fact that he had to take the lives of the enemy, while they occupied his original homeland in the Philippines. But he also seethed at the thought of that enemy threatening my mom with the butt end of a rifle and the sharp edge of a bayonet,as they tried to get her to divulge the whereabouts of he and his fellow guerilla fighters.

    As a youngster I didnt quite understand what he did or why he did it. But in his last few years we had a lot of time to spend together while fishing and inevitably the conversation would drift towards his memoirs and a recount of military life and of course I would ask Why did you do it , and Do you have any regrets ?

    His answers would be steady and firm "..I did what I believed to be just, to save your mother and your brother's and sister's from the oppression of the enemy".."..I took no pleasure in taking the lives of the enemy, but we were at War, and it was my duty to my country and the oath that I swore to protect "

    Thanks Dad
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