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Thread: Flyer is thrown 2nd in a land triple...

  1. #11
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    Feb 2008


    Not a Big Gun but will attempt to answer:

    What a test like this will do is exactly what the OP has done, it gets people to change their strategy and training techniques/regiment and attempt something they haven't practiced before..No doubt that the flyer is the most exciting of the marks, but when you attempt to pick up the birds in a different order than what your dog is used to,it can lead to problems.

    An honest to goodness Big Gun once told me when you start changing your own game plan based on the test in an attempt to outsmart those that set it up, then you can usually count on going home soon after
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  3. #12
    Senior Member Kevinismybrother's Avatar
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    Aug 2009
    Brighton, CO


    My dogs did not run the Buffalo Wallow test, but there were several similar to it - flyer shot second and usually being the long middle bird. There was at least one test where the flyer was long, right and first. And sluiced in the water. NO other flyers were sluiced.

    The purpose is to see if the dog will come off the flyer to mark the remaining birds. I did watch a few dogs run that BW test, and all I saw sent the dog for the last bird down. some may have picked up the number 1 bird first as there was a swirling wind, and since they were converging marks and fairly close together. Also, if the dog "flash marked" or only saw the end of the third mark, they may have gone for the first bird since the handler sent them to that area.

    As mentioned by Bon, regardless of the test, all the pros and most handlers picked up the last bird down and went with their training plan - ie - last bird, shortest bird longest bird in a triple. Or last bird outside bird middle bird.

    I normally train for out of order flyers and at varying distances - you may see one as the first bird on a walk up!!! We see that a lot in this area and the dogs need to be prepared.

    good luck training!!
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  4. #13
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Jan 2003
    Golden, Colorado


    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer Henion View Post

    But in reading the description of the Buffalo Wallow test, I see the flyer is thrown 2nd on the far left of the test and thrown toward bird #3. Most people selected to get bird 1 or bird 3 first.

    Are out of order flyers always sluiced so they don't go anywhere? Otherwise, I would think a person would want to get the flyer first, so it doesn't move from where it was marked? Also would get flyer first to take away the suction caused by that bird. If you sent dog for the last bird down, there would be ever present suction from the flapping flyer on the ground just to the left.

    What does an out of order flyer in a triple or quad, do to a dog? Does it serve as a major distraction that may cause dog to miss the rest of the marks...

    Although Paul Young is predominantly if not exclusively at HT guy, and I am exclusively a FT guy, I want to echo much of what he said:
    1. I don't look to "eliminate" any specific category of dog
    2. You sluice because you want to make things as uniform as possible for all dogs
    3. The primary purpose of the out of order flyer is to distract the dogs
    4. You run your dog in the fashion that maximizes its chances for success

    Some additional thoughts about out of order flyers
    1. Is it important to you to distract the dog? If so, why?
    2. Any time you shoot a flyer out of order, you increase the difficulty of mechanics in the test.
    3. Any time you shoot a flyer out of order, you increase the likelihood of increasing bird costs for the club (Imagine triple, if flyer last bird down, if there is no bird on first two birds, you have not shot a flyer. If you shoot a flyer out of order, and the last bird down is a no bird, you have now wasted a flyer)
    4. Any time you shoot a flyer out of order, you really increase the likelihood that the dog will not see the last bird down.

    Not saying that flyers should not be shot out of order, but out of order flyers come with a set of complications that need to be considered.
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  6. #14
    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
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    Jul 2008
    N. Cackalacky


    Quote Originally Posted by BonMallari View Post
    An honest to goodness Big Gun once told me when you start changing your own game plan based on the test in an attempt to outsmart those that set it up, then you can usually count on going home soon after
    My corollary: when faced with a situation whether to run it the way we trained or change based on the test, I will be wrong 100% of the time.

    Really OOFs are so common, it doesn't make that much difference. It is when the flyer is really short, the BBs are swinging the ducks and the ducks are quacking the whole time you are coming from the holding blind that gives one of my critters fits

  7. #15
    Senior Member Jennifer Henion's Avatar
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    Jan 2012
    Far Northern California


    Great input and food for thought! Thanks so much.
    ​"Power is of two kinds. One is obtained through the fear of punishment and the other by acts of love. Power based on love is a thousand times more effective and permanent than the one derived from fear of punishment." Mahatma Gandhi

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