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Thread: Saying No to a BYB without being preachy?

  1. #21
    Senior Member Marissa E.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul "Happy" Gilmore View Post
    Some folks like to tell folks there is no way you can make money off of breeding except they have three brood bitches and have litters all year long too. Lol
    That always left me scratching my head. I'm not into breeding dogs myself, but I always wonder why they have so many puppies then? And for many of those same breeders it just seems like as soon as a bitch turns two it's off to the races to get her clearances and get her bred. Lol.

    Marissa Everett

    Hebrews 12:11 No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.

  2. #22
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    Agreed. But people love sounding exclusive and smart. A simple " I'm sure your dogs are wonderful, but no thanks." works.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Sharon Potter's Avatar
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    Actually, a simple "no thank you" rarely ever works with these folks.
    Sharon Potter

    www.redbranchkennels.net

    Chesapeake Bay Retrievers...too many to list.

    Team Huntsmith

  4. #24
    Senior Member John Lash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul "Happy" Gilmore View Post
    Some folks like to tell folks there is no way you can make money off of breeding except they have three brood bitches and have litters all year long too. Lol
    Yeah, I've always noticed that too. It's real hard and you can't make any money. Do not attempt this yourself unless you really know what you're doing, etc. etc.

    Yet "they" got their education the same way everyone else does.
    John Lash

    "If you run Field Trials, you learn to swallow your disappointment quickly."

    "Field trials are not a game for good dogs. They're for great dogs with great training." E. Graham

  5. #25
    Senior Member hotel4dogs's Avatar
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    I don't say no. I just tell them it's a wonderful idea, please provide me with full health clearances including hips, elbows, heart, eyes, thyroid, the 4 DNA tests we do on Goldens, plus a 5 generation pedigree so I can look into it further. And I ask them what the COI on the litter will be....when they get done stuttering and stammering their excuses, they go look for another stud dog.

    Barb Gibson
    with
    CH Rosewood Little Giant UDX VER RA SH MXP MJP XFP T2BP VCX WCX CCA CGC FFX-OG
    also UCH HR UUD UJJ URO1 UHIT
    (golden retriever) born 3-10-07
    a.k.a. "Tito", "The Tito Monster"
    www.GoTeamTito.com

  6. #26
    Senior Member Sharon Potter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Lash View Post
    Yeah, I've always noticed that too. It's real hard and you can't make any money. Do not attempt this yourself unless you really know what you're doing, etc. etc.

    Yet "they" got their education the same way everyone else does.
    It's kind of a catch 22. If a breeder says they make money, they are criticized as "only being in it for the money".

    While it is possible to make some money from raising good pups, one has to be ready for the stuff that happens along the way.

    I remember my very first litter of Labs, a long time ago. I had 11 puppies, zero problems, and sold them all at $600 each. I thought "Sweet! This is great!" The next litter was two puppies, which covered the stud fee and the dog food and vet stuff. Profit zero. My next dog, a couple of years later, had her first litter of six, and again I thought "Not bad...this helps a little." And then she had her next litter of eight, via c-section, at the (Rip-off) emergency clinic at 1 am on a Saturday....at a cost of $3100 just for the c-section.

    Next few litters were no problem with the exception of one more c-section, at the country vet in Oklahoma at a whopping cost of $350, and one bitch that missed twice and was subsequently spayed and sold as a gun dog. Three years of raising, training, clearances, hunt testing....poof! Down the drain financially, but she now has a great home with wonderful people.

    And then my litter from last fall. It's still hard for me to even talk about without crying....but suffice it to say that had it been disclosed before I purchased this female that she had already had three c-sections, I never would have made the purchase. I found this out about two weeks before her due date. 11 puppies, born via c-section to a dam with a uterus like paper and in very poor shape, starting to tear....none of the pups made it. Not one. I was sick over it. And the whole litter was sold before birth. Try making 11 phone calls to tell families awaiting a puppy that they all died. I cried for days...I get so attached to these dogs.

    Current litter of 8, all healthy at one week old, all sold.

    So sometimes things go easily and great, other times not so much. Raising pups right is a lot of work, but for me it's work I love and enjoy, even with the ups and downs.

    So yes, you can make some money on pups, but you also have to be prepared for some pretty substantial problems to crop up too. It's not all sunshine, roses and cash coming in.
    Sharon Potter

    www.redbranchkennels.net

    Chesapeake Bay Retrievers...too many to list.

    Team Huntsmith

  7. #27
    Senior Member 2tall's Avatar
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    I've read all the replies, and I think I'll stick with the "thanks but no thanks" method. My goal was not to come off sounding self righteous or as "the expert". I own purebred dogs when the politically correct thing is to adopt from shelters. Even though I do not feel the need to justify my decisions, I do not want to participate in adding to the problem. Thus, I chose not to breed my males just because somebody wants pups. To recite all the clearances that would be necessary, indicates I would consider breeding if they were done. I would not. There are plenty of purebred pet dogs that need homes. Why breed more?

    If my dentist asks me again, I am going to ask him instead to come training with me one day. Then we shall see how deep his interest is in real Labrador Retrievers! And I might get a training partner, who knows, it could happen. Thanks for all the replies. Each one was well considered.
    Carol,
    Owned and handled by Cruisin' with Indiana Jones, JH
    Alternate Handler: Westwind Buffalo Soldier
    Apprentice Handler: Snake River Medicine Man, JH
    http://newhoperetrievers.com

  8. #28
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Ditto Sharon. You most certainly can make money breeding and selling pups, and you make the most if you are absolutely ruthless, cheap food, basic vet care, no frills, no clearances, no titles, breed, breed, breed and dispose of the dogs once they are no longer breedable. That business model has the highest return. Once you start adding in anything else, whether it is health clearances, running your dog in some venue, good nutrition, housing and vet care, all that comes right off the bottom line. Be so foolish as to actually put a MH on your dog, let alone FC/AFC, well, you need a lot of pups to recoup any of that. The more and further you go in any venue, the less return on your dollar when it comes to breeding, in general. Factor in having young ones coming up, sucking up resources before they ever have a pup, and if you're dumb enough to keep old ones laying around, with all their geriatric expenses, there goes your business model.

    There is simply too much competition, in Labradors anyway, to raise prices accordingly. Comparatively few HT/FT litters go for the really big dollars to justify the expense put into the sire and dam, if you are looking at it from a strictly profit standpoint, which few do. They run because they love it, not because they expect big bucks from breeding. You have to run breeding like a business if you expect to make money off of it. Animal husbandry is risky, and many run on emotion more than fiscal responsibility. Singletons, csections, AIs, bitches that don't take, pups that die, big vet bill, have a few of those in a row and watch the ink run red. There are good times and bad like any business, it is up to the breeder what choices they make to increase their profit margin, or at least try to curb losses. The BYB with little or no clearances is likely going to make a profit on having a couple litters with their local dogs breeding to each other. They don't have much invested to lose in the first place.

    As far as saying no to someone I don't know who offers me their unknown male, it's pretty simple to do without being rude or offensive. I ask about pedigree and health clearances, they say he's AKC and vet says all good, then I know it's someone who doesn't know what they don't know. I explain briefly what I'm looking for in a stud and why, because mostly they really don't have a clue, it isn't their fault. Whether they go on to find something else to breed to, that's up to them, can't save someone who doesn't want to be saved, nor does everyone have to agree on what constitutes a "breed-worthy" dog.
    Kim Pfister, Rainmaker Labs

  9. #29
    Senior Member hotel4dogs's Avatar
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    It's not that you can't make money from a litter. You can. It comes out to about $3.50 an hour.

    Barb Gibson
    with
    CH Rosewood Little Giant UDX VER RA SH MXP MJP XFP T2BP VCX WCX CCA CGC FFX-OG
    also UCH HR UUD UJJ URO1 UHIT
    (golden retriever) born 3-10-07
    a.k.a. "Tito", "The Tito Monster"
    www.GoTeamTito.com

  10. #30
    Senior Member windycanyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotel4dogs View Post
    It's not that you can't make money from a litter. You can. It comes out to about $3.50 an hour.
    Not sure I agree w/ that as I think my time is basically free, esp since I lose work opportunities when I have a litter.

    I just paid a $5000 Visa bill from last month alone and 80% of it was dog related... 1 Emergency C section w/ a follow up infection 3.5 wks later, several AI's, progesterones, Fedex shipments, extra dog food, puppy food, supplies. I figure I made a negatory wage last month for sure!

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