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Thread: Paper or Plastic

  1. #31
    Senior Member Golddogs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FinnLandR View Post
    So, the salmon that spawn in the river and then die and rot there (providing nutrients to the other fish, invertebrates, and macroinvertebrates) aren't repecting the river?

    You do realize that some fish agencies have determined it is actually more beneficial for the environment to dispose of carcasses in the wild, and have actually begun to spread fish-mulch in various waters?

    The laws that prohibt throwing fish entrails in rivers are not about "respect"....

    Now, I understand not wanting to leave rotting piles of ducks or deer on a farmer's field for him to have to look at all day. But, rather than putting it in a dumpster, why not fertilize your garden? Oh, that's right, the law in same states can be interpreted as prohibiting it by overzealous GWs.
    A bit tough to haul guts back from SD after a week. Have used carp as garden additives but most of the time we are way to far away for what you suggest. And FYI, all SD public land forbids leaving gut piles and the like. PETA has nothing to do with it.
    Never trust a dog to watch your food!

  2. #32
    Senior Member HPL's Avatar
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    When it comes to birds, it's just easier to clean them at home. Big game, we leave the guts where we drop it out. I have to say that we have cleaned a Nilgai and then come back to where we left the guts an hour or two later and found nothing but a wet spot (and nilgai leave a pretty big gut pile). I have wondered if we fired a rifle out where we hunt nilgai and then sat quietly for an hour of so if coyotes would show up looking for a free meal. Last year I killed a feral hog that probably weighed about 100lbs and then put the whole carcass out at my scavenger/raptor photo site. Next day there was NOTHING left. We wandered all around looking for the remnants and found nothing, nada, so I don't worry too much about gut piles in this area.
    Last edited by HPL; 01-19-2014 at 09:38 AM.
    Any doctrine that weakens personal responsibility for judgment and for action helps create the attitudes that welcome and support the totalitarian state.
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  3. #33
    Senior Member roseberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    I assume most here are avid outdoorsmen/women. So it feels odd to see such contempt for conservationists.
    buzz,

    when did the use of a word like "impatient" become a statement of "contempt"? let's say someone on the main forum asked about the lack of desire in their 8 week old puppy and i responded, "just be patient." would i be showing contempt for the poster?

    in my opinion many are short term thinkers on such issues. hugh is a nice guy and i understand and enjoy reading his veiws as a conservationist and naturalist. i feel hugh is a good steward of our shared natural resources.

    i don't charachterize hugh here but, many who are "more scientific" in their views of our evolution and existence express science as a source for documentation of our evolution over millions of years, eons, i.e. long periods of time beyond my mental grasp. it seems to me that if this is your view of our world, our planet, our existence.......what difference does it really make whether a bag degrades in 10 days or ten thousand years? in this view there is no material difference in the two in terms of "time". why would one care?

    also short sighted in my view is our concern over how we leave our "planet" for our children.....our grand children. while this is a good way to live and we should obviously do our best, there seems to be no concern for the "scientificly viewed" future of our planet. follow me here, let's say WE in fact cause a truely cataclismic series of events that result in the earth swallowing and depositing all its current living organisms in some way. if all these carbon based organisms are then converted to oil, coal and gas, we would in fact be actively providing future sources of energy for the surviving organisms that would evolve over the next massively un-understandable periods of time to use in their future. where is the concern for them?

    i hold none in contempt, i really don't understand all these issues, i am just a "big picture" guy.
    john mccallie

  4. #34
    Senior Member HPL's Avatar
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    John, I think maybe you are being too much of a "Big Picture" guy. If you look at it the way I interpret what you wrote, why get out of bed in the morning? Much of the "take care of the earth" movement is about making life more pleasant, more beautiful, more interesting. The post apocalyptic world presented in many popular movies (the road warrior franchise for instance) just doesn't look like much fun. A world without wild places supporting truly wild animals seems diminished to me. Even if I never get to spend any time there, there should be places where man is still a prey species, where giant, really old trees exist, where the earth still remembers what it was like before there were so many of us. To a great extent, that is what environmentalism is about. The yelping of the coyote, the hoot of the owl, the scream of the puma, the the howl of the wolf.
    Any doctrine that weakens personal responsibility for judgment and for action helps create the attitudes that welcome and support the totalitarian state.
    (John Dewey)

    Associate yourself with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for 'tis better to be alone than in bad company.
    (George Washington)

    Gig'em Aggies!! BTCO'77HOO t.u.!!

    www.HughLieck.photoshelter.com

  5. #35
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    OK,
    I am a tree hugger. Just yesterday before the football started I hugged 120 of them.
    I make a point of using paper bags because....
    I have more than a few friends who cut pulpwood for a living.
    They hold a six pack of bier perfect.
    They have a red dot (store brand) that is a great pistol target.
    You can roll um up and start a brush pile burning with one.
    And they make great book covers!!
    How the heck does a kid cover a math book with a plastic bag!?!?


    as for the whole gut issue,

    "Buzzards gotta eat, same as worms"

    is a line from what movie?
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

    "The Greatest Obstacle to Discovery is not Ignorance -- It is the Illusion of Knowledge" ~ Daniel Boorstin

  6. #36
    Senior Member Golddogs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Bora View Post
    OK,
    I am a tree hugger. Just yesterday before the football started I hugged 120 of them.
    I make a point of using paper bags because....
    I have more than a few friends who cut pulpwood for a living.
    They hold a six pack of bier perfect.
    They have a red dot (store brand) that is a great pistol target.
    You can roll um up and start a brush pile burning with one.
    And they make great book covers!!
    How the heck does a kid cover a math book with a plastic bag!?!?


    as for the whole gut issue,

    "Buzzards gotta eat, same as worms"

    is a line from what movie?
    " Outlaw Josey Wales "
    Never trust a dog to watch your food!

  7. #37
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golddogs View Post
    " Outlaw Josey Wales "
    ayup
    you be Ten Bears?
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

    "The Greatest Obstacle to Discovery is not Ignorance -- It is the Illusion of Knowledge" ~ Daniel Boorstin

  8. #38
    Senior Member luvmylabs23139's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Storts View Post
    This is a good starting point to determine if a person is a sheep. I define them as believing everything which comes out thier party leader's pie holes. Just think about it and you will know where you fall.

    1.) It was in thing to get plastic bags, saving the forest, for years.

    2.) Then it was it back to paper instead of the plastic because they are filling up the land fills.

    3.) Now the sheep carry their own bag into the store.

    Dan
    Actually the whole paper vs plastic thing started not because of saving trees but rather the cost per bag to the grocery store. I was in college working in a grocery store back in the 80's when plastic first came in. We were told to use plastic unless the customer requested paper due to costs. We hated plastic, much easier to pack a decent bag in paper. The eggs and bread stayed on top!
    Double bag paper no handles on top! Best way to pack groceries!
    Hihope Hiland Heathen of Perth CD, RE, CGC, TDI

  9. #39
    Senior Member luvmylabs23139's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HPL View Post
    Come on Bon, you are old enough to have started with paper bags and learned that paper bags are carried from, supported by, the bottom. Just because they HAVE handles doesn't mean that you HAVE to carry them that way.
    YUP! Forget the handles!
    Hihope Hiland Heathen of Perth CD, RE, CGC, TDI

  10. #40
    Senior Member luvmylabs23139's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golddogs View Post
    I like to think I am both a conservationist and care taker of my environment and see no conflict. I also admit to using both paper and plastic, taking all of used plastic to the store where they have a recycle bin.( OMG I mentioned recycle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

    We do have a few stores around that give you a nickel off if you bring in a bag.


    I do not use a cloth bag often as I forget to take it with me most of the time.

    ( and FYI, the plastic bags are great for holding Pheasant guts and skins when field dressing birds. No sense in using a trash bag when you can recycle . OMG I said it again.)
    A double of those plastic grocery bags are useful for cleaning out the cat's litter box. Scoop, tie, and toss in the trash. Yup, I just recycled them.
    Hihope Hiland Heathen of Perth CD, RE, CGC, TDI

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