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Dew Claws???

12K views 33 replies 30 participants last post by  Jay Dufour 
#1 ·
I was having a conversation with my vet about removing the dew claws on my new litter. My vet is a dog owner (E Setters) and hunter, and told me "if it was him, he wouldn't worry about removing them." I have also seen other articles saying the "latest research" is linking dew claw removal to front leg problem later in life...

So my question is: Should I remove the dew claws or don't worry about???

Please give me your theories on why I should or shouldn't...

I have till Monday 11/20 to deside...

Thank you for your input...
 
#2 · (Edited)
Dew claws are nothing but trouble save ur puppy buyers some problems & remove them. I have one with dew claw if I ever knock her out they will be removed, never again. They get tangled up, in ice they rip, they r the fastest growing and hardest too cut nail. Most breeders cut them if you leave it sort've screams first time or Byb breeder, they are just problems waiting to happen. Maybe for the vets breed it doesn't matter but working dogs should have them cut.
 
#3 ·
I would have the removed, my YLM didn't have them removed by the breeder and at a 1.5 yrs old ripped one almost completely off. Was obvious the dog was in horrific pain, and had them surgically removed for a far greater cost than if it had been done as a puppy. Not worth the risk of leaving them intact IMO, especially with hunting dogs. As far as front leg problems I have never heard or seen a case of this. I had a similar conversation with my vet about having them removed and I got the response of "I have been a vet for 25 yrs and have never seen a dog with a torn dewclaw". Well just so happened the night my dog tore his loose, that same vet was on duty and got to see her first one.
 
#5 ·
I leave them on.

After having removed them as per the gospel retriever tradition for many years, I was convinced by some breeders of non-Labs to really look at how they are used when a dog actually has them. I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT HOLDING TOYS (I hate that argument, dogs without dewclaws can still hold toys and bones, who cares). I'm talking about when they are actually moving, running, jumping and turning. If they have them, they use them in those scenarios. Of my personal dogs, the ones with dewclaws can turn and stop sooner, slip and fall less on wet grass and ice, and have not had any front end injuries. Of my dogs without dewclaws, I've had two with shoulder strains from turning/falling at speed. Nothing life threatening but if it happens somewhat regularly then I should be expecting them to have side-effects as seniors.


As to the risk of tears... of course they are a risk, how much of a risk depends on the conditions and how diligent you are about trimming their nails. I currently have 9 with dewclaws and we hunt (grouse) in some pretty dense brush. We have yet to have a dewclaw injury. I have however had dogs rip off other toenails.... A conversation with a sports vet a couple years ago indicated that she felt all of the dewclaw injuries she had seen were on dogs whose nails were not properly trimmed. She said the only time that she personally would advise removing dewclaws was in long distance sled dogs because a) they were not travelling at a speed where dewclaws were likely to be of great benefit and b) dewclaws interfere with bootie usage which they do regularly need to wear. Most of her clientelle is gundogs, agility dogs, and sled dogs.

Personally, I think anyone who removes dewclaws because they are 'too hard to trim' is being lazy. <-- pot stirring comment!!!! :)

Honestly though, go watch some dogs who have dewclaws work at the speed/conditions that you expect your own dogs will work in and make a personal decision that you are comfortable with based on that. Most of my puppies go as gun dogs and agility dogs; the gun dog buyers understand why I leave them on and are taught to keep all nails trimmed short, and the agility buyers are not interested in puppies who have dewclaws removed. The broad statement that anyone who leaves dewclaws on is a BYB or newbie discounts a growing population of breeders who look at the pros and cons and make an educated decision. Just like hopefully those who are still removing them are making educated reasons to do so, vs just blindly following tradition or trying to get out of 2/16ths of a nail trim each week.
 
#7 ·
leave em...
 
#8 ·
Doesn't matter one way or the other but there is no research to demonstrate a relationship to carpal injuries only the opinion of a veterinarian who is a virologist who has a great interest in and writes about canine sports medicine topics.
 
#13 ·
I've seen my dogs use them when climbing out of ditches. Have also seen pictures of dogs in motion where the dew claws were definitely being utilized.
I asked my vet about dew claw removal many years ago. He said that he'd seen very few dew claw injuries in all his time as a vet (I'd say decades judging by his white hair!) and most were due to improper trimming.

Here's a short article that may help your decision
http://www.caninesports.com/uploads/1/5/3/1/15319800/dewclawexplanation.pdf
 
#15 ·
I remove dew claws on all my pups. That being said the best argument against removing them that I have ever seen was posted on RFT several years ago on a video made by Erica of Quarter Moon Goldens. Here is the link. www.vimeo.com/39124130
 
#19 ·
I agree with Dr. Ed that there is no current evidence that dew claw removal increases the incidence of carpal arthritis in dogs. However I do wonder about the possibility of dewclaw removal on the carpus in dogs that run hard and turn much like our competition retrievers on the medial (inside) stability of the carpal joint. It is a true articulation with tendinous attachment to the limb. Looking at pictures and videos of dogs running and turning with and without dewclaws I think that there is a possibility that the dewclaw can provide some stability to the carpus when turning. It would be a good biomechanical study.

I have left dewclaws on all my dogs and litters. Most all are Urban Search and Rescue dogs and I have seen them use them to claw their way up the rubble using them. Thankfully I have to cut them very rarely for this reason. :) I feel for them it could also be a safety issue. Some of my dogs and puppies are also HT and FT dogs and to date have had no issues with the dew claws.

In practice I have seen dew claw injuries. However I will say that I see a higher incidence of trauma to all the other nails than I do of the dew claws in dogs that still have them. I cannot say that I have observed a higher incidence of carpal arthritis in dogs with/without dewclaws, but all my cases are dogs without dewclaws, which I think is more of a reflection of the fact that FT/HT people habitually remove them.

What concerns me is that they are removed out of habit rather than for a rational reason for doing so. I have a lot of questions regarding the actual incidence of dew claw trauma (especially compared to other nails) and the role in carpal stability. So for now, based on these questions I will leave them in my dogs. (Plus I am squeamish about amputation of a digit in few day old puppies). This is a personal decision, that everyone should make with consideration rather than habit. So I am glad to hear people question it. Perhaps removal comes down to what the dog is going to be used for - pet, service dogs, USAR dogs, and dogs that have to make hard turns should have them left in place? Hunting (meat) dogs, if they do truly have a higher incidence of dew claw injury, should have them removed?

I have included a couple of links (obviously biased toward leaving them) - one is an article by the veterinarian Dr. Ed referred to, Dr. Chris Zink The other is an video of a person who feels it is important for them to be left on so that your dog can get out of the ice. I especially like the fact they are doing retrieves on the ice - we here in FL are not even getting in the water right now to train ;). Are we wimps or what?

http://www.caninesports.com/uploads/1/5/3/1/15319800/dewclawexplanation.pdf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4XflsMEk-k&feature=youtu.be
 
#20 ·
I've had one dog that had one grow back after an (obviously) unsuccessful attempt to remove them. She snagged and injured it at least twice while I had her, and I only had her for about 2 1/2 years. It was a major pain. It would take a pretty convincing argument for me to keep them on a working retriever.
 
#21 ·
I've always removed them, but more because that's what most buyers expect. However, the last litter I had two of the buyers specifically wanted them left on. Both stated they hunted on ice and in waterlogged areas and thought the dogs used their dew claws to get a better grip climbing over slick logs and ice. As that litter was small, I left all their dew claws on because at 3 days I had no idea which pup would go to those that wanted them left on (and the other buyers didn't care). Of my 6 dogs, I have one with her dew claws and while she's injured a nail on one, she's accident prone and has injured other toenails often and more seriously. Her one minor nail injury on a dew claw was just in keeping with the way she bangs herself up in general.
 
#23 · (Edited)
Hunt your dog in Upland in deep frozen snow for a few hours, and watch them get torn. Hunt a dog under camo netting and watch them get twisted and torn. Don't keep them cut up short and watch them get caught up, getting in and out of the kennel. Then with my luck the one that has her dew claws is the one that hates her nails cut and guess which one she hates getting cut the worst, guess which one bleeds for hours when you do wrestle her down and cut it. I'd say if vets haven't seen it, it's because most working dog people-hunters don't have dog with dew-claws and that most won't take dog in until they need an antibiotic. Dew claw tears are basically nail tears, blood-pain, limping for ~ aweek, most the nail is cut the leg wrapped, and don't require vet visit. That and perhaps the fact that most vets don't deal with many with hunting dogs, I mean how many barbed wire tears, cherry toe, etc. do most vets see on a regular basis. Most people I know take care of the minor issues themselves, that's why the skin stapler, and dog boots are in the med-kit. Fact of it is it's ~$20-$30, per pup to have them taken off, if you get an injury you have vet bills, have to knock the dog out and surgery ~300-$500 to have them taken off. Ounce of prevention, vs. pound of cure. Still everyone can do as they like, But I've had dogs with them and those without, and I've had enough issues that I'm not going to have another dog with them. They are a PITA
 
#24 ·
Hunt your dog in Upland in deep frozen snow for a few hours, and watch them get torn.

Yes, THIS. I have friends/ pup owners who won't have another with dews because their older 2, unrelated yellows out of Guide Dog would start to bleed if they so much as came over to play in my field w/ my gang. I've had one years ago who I bred, had my old vet remove (cutting method, not forceps), and apparently left a piece. That dog snagged that bit several times while hunting, so that was a PITA too.

I sincerely think it "depends". Maybe on where you live, the conditions the dogs live/hunt under, etc. And to be totally honest, I was not impressed the least w/ the Golden video the first time I saw it. I saw overweight or old Goldens that were put at risk on thin ice, thankfully shallow waters, and thought it was nothing but a set up. I don't allow my dogs out in conditions like that personally. And my dogs CAN and do climb steep canal banks, scale trees etc, downed in the water and yes, they can still hold their Nylabones in their "thumbless" paws. Off is my choice.... mileage obviously varies on the subject matter.
 
#26 ·
Mine are removed at 3 days of age. People expect it, as do I If I was buying a pup.
 
#27 ·
And,, to the poster who said that us "field" people, supposedly have seen torn dewclaws( because our field dogs have had them off- cant understand how we would see it). Some of us have more than just our own dogs-I have a kennel and see lots of dogs whos dewclaws are more trouble then theyre worth.
I have steep banks up and down the creek here-all of my dogs (except the old ladies), can get up the steep slippery banks, without their dews.
 
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