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Thread: Oregon ruling on Christian bakery

  1. #21
    Senior Member Terri's Avatar
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    If you have to serve anyone then why is every Asian restaurant allowed to keep up the sign stating they have a right to refuse service to any one? The government should start making these owners take down their sign. Just add it to the list of the things the health inspector looks for when he/she makes a visit. We as a society have already dealt with the conflicts when it comes to serve among religion and racial lines. Now we are starting to see conflicts based on sexual interest. Like it or not if you are in the service industry the only way to stay in business is to only see green. If you loss sight of the dollar you are not going to be in business for very long.

    Terri

  2. #22
    Senior Member Henlee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    But being gay is not a "religion", is it?

    A gay person might be Christian, Jewish or whatever. Gay people might be of any race as well. The baker may be very willing to serve people of varying religions and races. We have added "gay" as a distinction equal to those human rights, one which, in these cases, supercedes the religious beliefs of the baker by compelling the baker to participate in a religious ritual of the customer.

    The baker might have been very willing to provide a birthday cake for these same people, but objected to participating in the ritual for a practice that conflicted with his own religious beliefs.

    I think it is more complex than it appears on the surface.
    Oregon had passed a law that extended the same protections to religion, race and gender to sexual orientation also. I don't think it is really complex though. They don't agree with gay marriage. (that is their right and god bless them for it.) The state passed a law that said you can't discriminate based on sexual orientation. They did and now they had a ruling against them. it is pretty simple. If baking a cake in some way altered their beliefs, I would be with you, but it doesn't affect them. They still have their right to be against gay marriage.
    Ole and Sven are quietly sitting in a boat fishing, chewing and drinking beer when suddenly Sven says, 'I think I'm gonna divorce my wife - she ain't spoke to me in over 2 months.' Ole sips his beer and says, 'Better think it over...women like that are hard to find.'

  3. #23
    Senior Member Henlee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rboudet View Post
    They were not being denied a public service. They were trying to buy a cake. A luxury item. From a private business with a certian opinion. What if they just didn't like the way the couple looked or they didn't want their name associated with the type of cake they requested? Would they have the right to refuse that business?
    A business does have the right to refuse business. However, if they refuse service based off of Race, religion sex and in the case of Oregon Sexual orientation they will be in violation of the law. though the addition of sexual orientation is new it is absolutely equal to the other minorities in the states that have added it to their laws. So you will not see Straight White people only signs in the near future.
    Ole and Sven are quietly sitting in a boat fishing, chewing and drinking beer when suddenly Sven says, 'I think I'm gonna divorce my wife - she ain't spoke to me in over 2 months.' Ole sips his beer and says, 'Better think it over...women like that are hard to find.'

  4. #24
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    I read the article and asked myself how was their ability to practice their faith harmed by them taking this order? I understand they don't agree with what this other couple was doing, but it is not as if their personal beliefs were under attack. It was in fact them strenuously pushing their beliefs on the lesbian couple.

    I do believe that a Muslim or Jewish caterer could say that they do not offer pork products. I do believe those same caterers would be in violation of the same law if they said they did not service Christians, so I do not see a double standard there. These people are not being asked to participate or even endorse these religious ceremonies, but to simply provide the services they do to anyone else without discrimination.

    How can you not understand a persons right to choose. its not like they are condemning them to death.
    If a known pedifile asked me to train his dog I would tell him there is a guy down the road who may be happy to take their pet in for training.
    There can be spiritual consequences which may occur when we seek out to accommodate the perverted. I for one have declined work when I was a contracter many moons ago.
    I don't like being around flaming outrageously flamboyant homosexual people. Do I hate them . Hell no. But why would I subject myself to being around something that grates on me.,,,for whatever reason . There are plenty of contractors out there to take there money.
    I'm sure 95 percent of the people here will label me as a homophobe or a pedophobe now. Even if I were which I'm not,,,it would still be right right to choose who I hang with
    pete
    John 5 :30
    I can of my own self do nothing ,as I hear , I judge,,and my judgement is just, because I seek not my own will,,but the will of the father which hath sent me
    John 7:16 -- Jesus answered them and said my doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
    mark 16:9 -- So then after the lord had spoken unto them,he was received up in heaven, and sat on the right hand of God
    I Tim. 2:5 --For there is one God and one mediator between God and man ,, the man Christ Jesus

  5. #25
    Senior Member Brad Turner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntinman View Post
    Nobody said the cake had to be any good. Hell, make them a cake and fill it with exlax...
    Makes for one heck of a wedding night!!!!!
    Mioaks Southbound Sammy JH
    Leatherwood's Here's Your One Chance Fancy

    "Luck is the residue of design"- Branch Rickey

  6. #26
    Senior Member Henlee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    How can you not understand a persons right to choose. its not like they are condemning them to death.
    If a known pedifile asked me to train his dog I would tell him there is a guy down the road who may be happy to take their pet in for training.
    There can be spiritual consequences which may occur when we seek out to accommodate the perverted. I for one have declined work when I was a contracter many moons ago.
    I don't like being around flaming outrageously flamboyant homosexual people. Do I hate them . Hell no. But why would I subject myself to being around something that grates on me.,,,for whatever reason . There are plenty of contractors out there to take there money.
    I'm sure 95 percent of the people here will label me as a homophobe or a pedophobe now. Even if I were which I'm not,,,it would still be right right to choose who I hang with
    pete

    A pedophile is not a protected minority, so you have every right to kick them on down the road.


    Please understand that I am just operating from my basic understanding, but I also believe you are within your right to deny work to the couple for being outrageously flamboyant. However if you declined the work because they were simply gay then that could be a problem. So the question would be would you perform work for a "normal" gay couple. This is also premised on if sexual orientation is protected in your state or not.
    Ole and Sven are quietly sitting in a boat fishing, chewing and drinking beer when suddenly Sven says, 'I think I'm gonna divorce my wife - she ain't spoke to me in over 2 months.' Ole sips his beer and says, 'Better think it over...women like that are hard to find.'

  7. #27
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    [QUOTEA pedophile is not a protected minority, so you have every right to kick them on down the road.


    Please understand that I am just operating from my basic understanding, but I also believe you are within your right to deny work to the couple for being outrageously flamboyant. However if you declined the work because they were simply gay then that could be a problem. So the question would be would you perform work for a "normal" gay couple. This is also premised on if sexual orientation is protected in your state or not.][/QUOTE]

    Once a paedophile is released from his sentence he has many of his rights back. I do understand what you are saying and to a degree you can't shun them from society as a whole. They do have the same rights as we do as is should be,,but I also have the right to say no to whom ever I wish. weather they be black ,white,,chinese,,or whatever. By making me do something against my will is just as wrong.

    Just to let you know where I am coming from,,, I lived with 2 gay guys when I was about 20 yrs. old. Strictly platonic on my part. I stepped out of the shower one morning and stepped in a pile of sh!t on the living room floor. I flipped out but even after that I held no ill toward that guy,,, ,,10 years later my wife and I with our 2 sons took a gay man in for about 6 weeks to help him out with his marriage and help him work through it. so I am no homophobe,,,but I have learned things that many can't dream nor would want to. of concerning this topic.
    their not to be hated but emphasized with. Lots of destruction not only in their life but those who love them. I learned a lot about that type of person There is a lot to say about the subject ,,,none of it roses and lollypops.

    To answer your question.. yes I am very cordial and nice to them. I consider them my equal. A s far as a business deal,,that would depend on the circumstance.
    But I know for sure I would not make any deals or shake hands with a treasonous bastard like our president. His charm and beautiful speech doesn't fool me. He is way darker inside than outside. This has to do with the evil behind the person,,,not the person.

    See I probably told you to much Ha Ha
    Pete
    Last edited by Pete; 01-24-2014 at 08:19 PM.
    John 5 :30
    I can of my own self do nothing ,as I hear , I judge,,and my judgement is just, because I seek not my own will,,but the will of the father which hath sent me
    John 7:16 -- Jesus answered them and said my doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
    mark 16:9 -- So then after the lord had spoken unto them,he was received up in heaven, and sat on the right hand of God
    I Tim. 2:5 --For there is one God and one mediator between God and man ,, the man Christ Jesus

  8. #28
    Senior Member Henlee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    [QUOTEA pedophile is not a protected minority, so you have every right to kick them on down the road.


    Please understand that I am just operating from my basic understanding, but I also believe you are within your right to deny work to the couple for being outrageously flamboyant. However if you declined the work because they were simply gay then that could be a problem. So the question would be would you perform work for a "normal" gay couple. This is also premised on if sexual orientation is protected in your state or not.]
    Once a paedophile is released from his sentence he has many of his rights back. I do understand what you are saying and to a degree you can't shun them from society as a whole. They do have the same rights as we do as is should be,,but I also have the right to say no to whom ever I wish. weather they be black ,white,,chinese,,or whatever. By making me do something against my will is just as wrong.

    Just to let you know where I am coming from,,, I lived with 2 gay guys when I was about 20 yrs. old. Strictly platonic on my part. I stepped out of the shower one morning and stepped in a pile of sh!t on the living room floor. I flipped out but even after that I held no ill toward that guy,,, ,,10 years later my wife and I with our 2 sons took a gay man in for about 6 weeks to help him out with his marriage and help him work through it. so I am no homophobe,,,but I have learned things that many can't dream nor would want to. of concerning this topic.
    their not to be hated but emphasized with. Lots of destruction not only in their life but those who love them. I learned a lot about that type of person There is a lot to say about the subject ,,,none of it roses and lollypops.

    To answer your question.. yes I am very cordial and nice to them. I consider them my equal. A s far as a business deal,,that would depend on the circumstance.
    But I know for sure I would not make any deals or shake hands with a treasonous bastard like our president. His charm and beautiful speech doesn't fool me. He is way darker inside than outside. This has to do with the evil behind the person,,,not the person.

    See I probably told you to much Ha Ha
    Pete[/QUOTE]

    I didn't mean to insinuate anything about you. If you took it that way I apologize.
    Ole and Sven are quietly sitting in a boat fishing, chewing and drinking beer when suddenly Sven says, 'I think I'm gonna divorce my wife - she ain't spoke to me in over 2 months.' Ole sips his beer and says, 'Better think it over...women like that are hard to find.'

  9. #29
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    [QUOTEI didn't mean to insinuate anything about you. If you took it that way I apologize.][/QUOTE]

    I know you weren't insinuating anything. I don't take things personally especially over the computer.
    Pete
    John 5 :30
    I can of my own self do nothing ,as I hear , I judge,,and my judgement is just, because I seek not my own will,,but the will of the father which hath sent me
    John 7:16 -- Jesus answered them and said my doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
    mark 16:9 -- So then after the lord had spoken unto them,he was received up in heaven, and sat on the right hand of God
    I Tim. 2:5 --For there is one God and one mediator between God and man ,, the man Christ Jesus

  10. #30
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    I refuse to do business with green or purple people
    charly

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