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Is there a best ever???

46K views 161 replies 79 participants last post by  HarryWilliams 
#1 ·
I almost didn't post this because I didn't want to start a fight but...oh well.

Is there a best dog ever????

A Michael Jordan of the dog world...one that has more titles and stands out the most? I've heard of a lot of amazing dogs and a buddy of mine just bought a dog who's grandsire was Pachanga who he says was a really great dog. And I've heard a lot about Grady and Trav too. I just have very little knowledge of the retriever world and was curious.

Please don't make this a fight. That's not the intention of the question.
 
#44 ·
Diving into the cold water of Crab Orchard Lake for the last test which required Shed to do was a double water blind of 50 yards. When Shed emerged from the the water he had won his third National.
A double water blind, of 50 yards?

Sounds like an easy Master second series.
 
#47 ·
Wanting titles, how about 2xNOC OTCH Count Tyler Show Me The Money UDX7 OM7 MH (QAA and derby list).
 
#50 ·
I think you could make the argument that Auggie is best because he's the only dog in the modern era of more widespread training knowledge to have more than 400 all age points. But would he have had the same number running in Texas or the upper Midwest? I don't know. I think a pretty good argument could be made for Trumarc's Zip Code.
 
#78 · (Edited)
may have a winner?? SRSC FC AFC MHR HRCH DAY'S END HILLVIEW SUPER SUE MH
 
#58 · (Edited)
All the posts have merit. Cliches' that apply -
"To each his own"; "Every dog has it's day"; "In the eyes of the beholder".

Pete Jones told me after the PPRC trial in May 1971 that he had held the book on
all the great ones (in his time) & there were 10 that stood out -

In the years I have judged around the country, eleven dogs stand out. They are listed
below. Later my thoughts of each one will be available.

Candlewoods Tanks A Lot, Wanapum Dart's Dandy, River Oaks Corky, River Oaks Rascal,
Crook's Pork and Beans, Machipongo's W.A. Nappy, Zipper Dee Do, Royal Oaks Jill of
Burgundy, Ebony Argonaut, Stone's Throw Marion's Choice, Showthyme.

Bill Connor
 
#62 ·
As usual here we are putting the cart before the horse.... This thread has gone way too long without a definition for the word best

So how about this. Which one was the best at what the overall post net tending breed has evolved to, with the least derogatory influence on the looks temperment, or health of the breed at large and without simply being a carracature of one aspect ........:p

john
 
#64 ·
I know some of you guys who have been in this business a long time semi laugh at this thread. I can tell you that for somebody new it is a good way to learn about dogs. I spent yesterday looking up dogs mentioned in this thread and reading what I can find about them. Even though I don't have a desire at this moment to compete at any level I was able to learn a lot about my new pup.

In my pups five generation he has River Oaks Corky and Super Chief. I was pretty excited to find that information out. I for one have enjoyed this thread learning about the history of your sport.
 
#66 ·
Field trials were organized to objectively determine the "best" retriever on a given weekend. Field trials are considered by most in the retriever sports and out of the sports to represent the highest performance retrievers. It's the primary reason field trials are held - to determine the "best" each week but even so the human judgement of the performances each week always include some subjective aspect. And its the reason a national champion is crowned every year. Some have realized that a national event also has its luck and subjective judgement, so we also count points annually to arrive at a top points retriever for a given year. The weekend FT, the national championship & the tops points dog competitions give us the best criteria developed to date. There are documented lists of dogs by points, by wins, by national championships. Go through the lists and pick your "best ever".

The "best retriever ever" discussion introduces an additional generational aspect where comparisons are outside of head-to-head competition & over extended periods when the game has changed. To some field trials don't represent "the best" but that was & is the intent. To some hunting prowess is the trait desired, to others companionship or some other aspect. So this discussion can be as objective or subjective and far ranging as you want, so define your criteria and write on.
 
#67 ·
how about who in some people opions where the best in certain eras? like who was best in the 80s 90s 2000s present etc. your going to get several different opions. If some people knew one dog and what not and did well in the trial world theyll be bias obviously. im sure youll hear people say lean mac, cody, grady, patton, lottie..... the list is pretty long im sure
 
#72 ·
I kind of like this idea...I never had the privilege of seeing any of these dogs. And I can't seem to find any videos of them either on YouTube. Did anyone witness first hand any of these dogs? Maybe have a story about them?

Also, many people have said that the best dog is in their living room...tell us a story. Why you appreciate and love that dog so much. Keep it fun! It's not like this is going to a vote. Apparently there were/are many wonderful dogs in the FT's and HT's and that's great to hear about. Everyone has a favorite story of a dog they saw, or what they're dog has done. We're on our second consecutive "snow day" (it didn't actually snow by the way) in Louisiana so cabin fever is getting to me!

Aaaaand even better if you have a picture or a video. Please share it! This has been a fun thread to read!

Many Thanks,

Tony
 
#68 ·
Look at the high point dogs, consider their competition at the time, how many trials did they typically run, how long was their career, male or female, in the case of females did they have litters, how many litters which takes them out of competition for a considerable amount of time.

A case can be made for Kannonball Kate and Wanapum Dart's Dandy who were both great bitches from the West coast. Honcho's career ended shortly after his 6th birthday when he was in his prime and had already been a National Finalist multiple times. Trumarc's Zip Code had a phenomenal record of wins, Double Headers, and National Finalist appearances. Auggie's record was also phenomenal and he was out of action with cruciate ruptures. Cork of Oakwood Lane, King Buck, and many others are certainly in the conversation. There is no way to determine or even logically speculate anymore than comparing Babe Ruth to Hank Aaron.

Therefore your Honor I submit that the unquestioned all-time high point retriever River Oaks Corky deserves the title.
 
#70 · (Edited)
I agree with this....but I do know a couple dogs who went every weekend against him and cleaned his clock ,Handler error maybe?:eek: So the answer is "who is the best"......... is in the eye of the beholder.....Jim
 
#74 ·
This is a video of a hunt we made opening day of 2011. This dog is General Edwin's Ace "Ace" - my brother in laws dog - from Boeuf River Retrievers. He's our first "real" hunting retriever. I say real in that he was professionally trained and achieved SH at a young age. I think before he was two. I know that's not a whole lot by most standards but he was the first dog we ever had that did that....

Anyway, the video is pretty boring to be honest. Just us shooting speckle bellies but at about the 3:35 mark he made his first (pretty) long blind. He was a month away from 2 years old, this was his first season to hunt, and and retrieved a crippled speckle belly at about 125-150 yards. The GoPro cameras can make distance seem greater. I wouldn't say it was a flawless retrieve but man what an exciting moment!!! To see the time, and MONEY that was invested in him first hand. I knew right then I'd get one someday!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiBid7o-FXU
 
#75 ·
Like the BCS - SOS is significantly different in all parts of the country & depends a lot on the dogs that create the competitive nuclei of any circuit at any given time - & that changes from year to year - I asked a now deceased competitor why he was on a different early circuit that year than he normally ran - It was his perception that the competition was inferior on another circuit & he wanted to fatten up his dog's resume. Circuit's enjoy different advantages, the Pacific Northwest normally had good water dogs. That advantage has gone by the wayside with much colder winters of late & most of the watery areas now colonized. Unless you have the grounds available to challenge your dog routinely you will never know how good they are.

I've had the privilege of running against, judging & watching some of the great dogs mentioned on this thread, also have owned pups sired by many of them

& have seen many more that if not great certainly border on that. I watched Dandy all the way from a pup to a NFC, & I watched Hal Loop go into hysterics when she calmly came back to the island before the line & proceed to eat the bird. She did deliver what she was not interested in eating to hand :). I've had the privilege of visiting with some of the great trainers of my time as I'm sure many of the old timers here have. Once they know you, it's amazing how candid they will be, & what a fount of info they are.

Any dog that wins it all deserves to be among those called great - longer does not necessarily mean harder - I've seen among others "Oily" Adams & "Pizza" Pete set tests with no bird more than 100 yards, trust me, the average MH is not going to be playing in that field with the big dogs. When you see a dog come to the line, sit & assess the situation, then go out & hammer the test you know you've seen greatness.

Some things I would pass on from observation: Honcho never threw a bad pup, but was advised to go to Percy when Honcho pups were no longer available, the Paha Sapa Chief line could throw some very sticky dogs, River Oaks Corky threw very nice, trainable by amateur pups, I never saw anything about Lean Mac that appealed to me though he was well merchandised by his owner. If Charly had ever bred Dandy to a dog I liked I would have had one of those pups. I trained & ran against Chad's dog's sire Code Blue, probably one of the nicer dogs around & certainly the class of his handlers string at that time.
 
#76 ·
I never saw anything about Lean Mac that appealed to me though he was well merchandised by his owner. If Charly had ever bred Dandy to a dog I liked I would have had one of those pups. I trained & ran against Chad's dog's sire Code Blue, probably one of the nicer dogs around & certainly the class of his handlers string at that time.
Mr. Marvin, I'm curious about two of these dogs. Both Code Blue, and Lean Mac are in my new pups pedigree. If you don't mind, could you expand on what you did or did not like about them? I've heard some people talk about these two dogs. What about them was or was not appealing?

Thanks,

Tony
 
#79 ·
You train on occasion with a guy who is a much bigger student, more knowledgeable of the game, & more successful than I.
If you can get him to talk he could probably fill the book you are going to write some day about dog training with, at the least 2 or 3 chapters. How's you dog doing, & not the one in NM :).
As for Tony's request, today is a big day in politics with an important meeting which I need to prepare for, but I will get back with him with some history at a later date.

John, no one appreciates a good joke more than I do :).
 
This post has been deleted
#81 ·
NO.


No, actually there is 9 (GMHR, GRHRCH, MNH, NAFC, NFC, CFC, CAFC, CNFC, CNAFC) . And as has been mentioned, Field trials are competitive by design, hunt tests are not, thus hunt tests/titles do not factor into the discussion.
Default
OK...let me phrase it this way. She has more accumulated titles than any other dog in history. Regardless of venue, why would you not consider her based on that accomplishment alone?? Because she played hts?? I'll take the versatility over a one trick pony any day...
 
#80 · (Edited)
Seeing a dog run from the line is a totally different view of the animal. Thus, individuals which judged these great dogs over the past few decades, I feel, offer the best opinions.

If you do not get the information directly from at least 20 year plus veteran it's just hearsay in my opinion. The fish always gets bigger every time the story is told.

However, you will be able to talk about the ones you see today with true facts.

Dan
 
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