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Is there a best ever???

46K views 161 replies 79 participants last post by  HarryWilliams 
#1 ·
I almost didn't post this because I didn't want to start a fight but...oh well.

Is there a best dog ever????

A Michael Jordan of the dog world...one that has more titles and stands out the most? I've heard of a lot of amazing dogs and a buddy of mine just bought a dog who's grandsire was Pachanga who he says was a really great dog. And I've heard a lot about Grady and Trav too. I just have very little knowledge of the retriever world and was curious.

Please don't make this a fight. That's not the intention of the question.
 
#6 · (Edited)
River Oaks Corky acquired more all age points than any other--if you are looking at just field trial results. But there are other things that make a dog great. At some point in our lives we may get to own a dog that may not have Corky's ribbon count, but, he will be special to us for a number of reasons. For me it was my first lab, Zeus.
 
#7 ·
Hard to measure, for sure. And, can you compare eras? That is a tough one, but I can see both sides of that argument.

Also, folks have different criteria. I was speaking with a pro recently and we started talking about 'great dogs'. His criteria for a great dog excluded many that I consider great and a great many that had I owned them, I would have been in FT Heaven.

I think at the end of the day you could come up with some in the running but would have a hard time getting a consensus.
 
#8 ·
ABD391 - The one thing I learned many decades ago is that when it comes to guys you never question the worth of their car, dog or woman. It is all in the eyes of the beholder for all manner of reasons. For instance would you want to own a 3X NFC bitch who periodically would eat an entire bird in the field while refusing to come in. Like Zeus , my first competitive field trial dog(+++) . Chip remains mine and since his death I have been chasing the rainbow for another one. I have always enjoyed derby dogs because before we mess them up with our notions of quality they demonstrate their most natural abilities to "mark!" When you look at an All-Age dog the ability to work with the handler is also poetry in motion. The challenge of points, wins , etc.is interesting and valid but before you would get carried away with that do not put the burden of "greatness" on a dog but put it on yourself. Test yourself first.
 
#9 ·
Field trials by design are based on the search to find the best dog, head to head in the field, on that given day...

Without FUBARing this defination , over the years there were more than few were "Better" than (******) or (**** **) on a given day

Where do you go to find the better dog, when the high point Open dog looses to another dog at the National Open. Or worse yet when a former HPOD fails to even qualify;-)

john
 
#10 ·
#11 ·
My bride will say the BDE was her beloved Eddie whom we lost last year. Sired over 100 working service/guide dogs, made his SH and made us both smile every day. My favorite is the one curled up on my feet right now, itching to go out and train in the cool morning air. My next favorite will be the pup who is yet a bit rambunctious to be left out of the ex pen. And of course here are several urns of ashes of former BDE's in a special place.
 
#13 ·
In my opinion it is my dog Sunny. She was my very first lab ever, first dog I had ever trained to do any kind of competitions. The dog that has accomplished more than I ever thought possible and we are not done yet. If she started talking to me right now I wouldn’t be surprised, that is my dog Sunny.
 
#14 ·
I guess I worded my question incorrectly...It should have been who is the most titled dog or dog with the most titles or etc...I was trying to relate the Michael Jordan sports analogy to the world of retrievers and I seem to have fell short.

Trust me I just buried my first dog a few weeks ago and he'll always be my favorite so I understand the responses.

Thanks for the replies.

Tony
 
#15 ·
Your basketball analogy makes your question confusing. You are saying that Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player ever, yet are asking about dogs with titles. Michael Jackson was a great player but not the most winningest player in pro basket ball history. Of course, my source is Wikipedia so....hmmm.

I think the greatest dogs were those dual Ch. from back in the day.
 
#16 ·
Well, you might ask who is the "Man 'o War", (most exciting), who is the "Secretariat" (best stats) or maybe who is the "Seabiscuit"(overcame greatest odds, longevity". It is all so subjective. It might be fun to hear some ideas from the old timers, which dogs filled these places. Give it a shot guys!

Meanwhile, the greatest dog I've ever heard of is crying at the door to go out, so I gotta go!
 
#30 ·
To me the measure of greatness is does the dog do what it was bred to do? Lottie being the dominant derby dog for a long time holding the record and winning the national..... You don't be high point derby dog without beating your contemporaries on a consistent basis. I would think HPOD would be tough for a female, you are giving up four or more weekends a year, but to win the national three times. The derby record shows consistent performance, the national wins show that more then once she was the best of the best for a week.

Another measure of greatness, do the progeny do what they were bred to do. Lean Mac has a lot of FCs to his credit, but for her limited chance to pass on genes, there is Lottie somewhere behind a lot of great dogs today.
 
#31 ·
Btw, there are lots of other greats by that measure, Raiderin the HT world.... But I assume the OP was rendering to FT dogs.
 
#32 ·
The best dog ever may never be known. It could be curled up in front of someones fireplace right now as a pet. May have gotten lost at some point and ended up in a shelter unfortunately. Or it could be your neighbors hunting dog that gets to retrieve a few ducks a year and doesnt run any hunt tests or field trials. Two other big factors are money and time. A lot of dogs may never see their full potential if there owners do not have the money to use a pro or the time to train as much as necessary or run countless HTs or FTs. Some dogs get there slowly because of an unlimited pocket book and countless experience at a particular venue.

In my mind I have three of the greatest dogs...They play, stare at me and beg to go out and work. This makes me turn off the TV even when its cold outside and take them training or hunting. They enjoy it so much it greatly enhances my experience and makes it so that I want to do it more frequently because even with the frustrations it is still one of the most rewarding things you can do with GREAT dogs.
 
#35 ·
I really have enjoyed reading all of these comments. Made the day down south go by faster...especially since we'll have another "snow day" tomorrow where everything is closed.

I wasn't just referring to FT dogs really. I've only been to one qualifying FT (this past Saturday) and never a HT. What's been most interesting is the views on was makes a dog great, and furthermore that many of you thinks so highly of your own dog. I think that shows a lot about you all as owners. I read somewhere (maybe on here) "If a man/woman loves his dog, I respect him. If the dog loves his man/woman, I like him."

I really don't know what the criteria for being a great dog is. I was kind of leaving that up to y'all since I'm green to all of this. I'll tell you what it is for me though. My wife and I just had our first child, a son, 7 months ago. I pick up my new pup in a couple of weeks. For me, if my son has great memories of me, him and our dog "Man" hunting, and better memories of them being buddies, he'll be a great dog to me.

Thanks again,

Tony
 
#38 ·
Tony- I don't know the answer to your question, but I do know of some great dogs that I would have liked to see work and get to know them: King Buck, Freehaven Muscles, Topbrass Cotton, Emberain Rugby and TNT Explosion "Boomer."

Will Rogers said something to the effect that if dogs don't get to go to heaven, then he wanted to go where they went. I agree with him. So, maybe if it works that way, I will have my chance.
 
#43 · (Edited)
Here are a few who"also ran" ;-)


OK here you go. It's long, but this is from the LRC. I don't know the status of any of these dogs.

LABRADORS with PERFORMANCE and CONFORMATION TITLES or POINTS Amateur Field Champions with Conformation TitlesAFC/CH Jason of the Golden Fleece II AFC/Ch. Shamrock Acres Simmerdown AFC/CH Rinney's Cumulo Nimbus

Champion Master Hunters CH Raintree Wooly Bully RN MH (bm) CH Hidden Springs Blue Goose MH (ym) CH Poplar Forest Play It Again Sam MH (bm) CH Ridge View No Fear MH (ym) CH Lands End Whatever She Wants CDX MH (bf)CH Caer Bren Superhero MH (ym)CH Ransom's I Wanna Be Good CD MH (bm)Am/Can Ch. Lor-Al's Got Our Power Play CD MHCH Ransom Armbrook's Hole In One CD MH (bm)CH Pembroke Blk Mist Poplar Forest MH (bf)CH Ransom's Armbrook Indigo Hue CD MH (bm)CH Bayview's Aliho Denali MH (bm)Am/Can Ch. Fawnhaven Hard Act To Follow CD MHCH Waterbound Locke On Laddy MH (bm)CH Sundance's Paddy's Irish Cream CD MHCH Danikk Leap of Faith MH (ym)CH Belle Tradition O'Broad Reach MH (bm)CH Marit's Slippry Round the Bend MH (bm)CH/MACH Prospect's Slam Dunk UD MH RN MXP5 MJP5 PAX (ym)CH Winnie's Block Buster MH (ym)CH Ashridge Captain Wentworth MH (ym)CH Naiken Indian Temple MH (cm)CH Campbelcroft Peppermint Paddy CDX MH (ym)CH Ashway's Willcare Impression CD MH (cm)CH Bayside's Mark West CD MH (bm)CH Avalon's Regal Buck MH (bm)Am/Can Ch. Clarion's Bad As I Wanna Be CD MH CKC MH (bm)CH Westwind's Chilkoot Charlie MH (ym)CH Brandywine's Westdale Duggan MH (ym)CH Franklin's Pickpocket for Kerrybrook MH (ym)Am/Can. Ch. Brookland's Mischievous Sealion MH CDX NA (ym)CH Ruthless Blazing Brentley CDX MH (cm)CH Aliho's Igloo Iggy UDX MH (ym)Am/Mex/Int'l Ch. Cook's Midnight Bandit MH (bm)CH Topform's Edward MH (bm)CH Willcare's Gypsy Talkeetna CD MH (ym)CH Willcare's Gypsy Chitina CD MH (yf)CH Devon's Rough Magic CD TDX MH (bf)CH Harbortop's Redwick Valhalla MH (bm)CH Broad Reach Gripper UD MH (bf)CH Duckback's HiHope CD MH (yf)CH Plantiers Ruthless Ruthie MH CD (cf)CH Broad Reach's Trace Of Grace MH (bf)CH Buddy of Cedar Bush Creek UD MH (bm)CH Simerdown Royal Canuck MH (ym)CH Romany Sun Jester CD MH (ym)Field


Champions with Conformation Titles Dual Ch. Hiwood Shadow (bm) Dual Ch. Warpath Macho (bm) Dual Ch. Royal Oaks Jill of Burgundy (bf) Dual Ch. Shamrock Acres Super Drive (bm) Dual Ch. Trumarc's Triple Threat (bm) Dual Ch. Petite Rouge (bm) Dual Ch. Sherwood's Maid Marion (yf) Dual Ch. Happy Playboy (bm) Dual Ch. Torque of Daingerfield (ym) Dual Ch. Ridgewood Playboy (bm) Dual Ch. Calypso Clipper (bm) Dual Ch. Danny's Cole Black Slate (bm) Dual Ch. Problem Boy Duke of Wake (bm) Dual Ch. Burnham Buff (yf) Dual Ch. Little Miss Timber (bf) Dual Ch. Krooked Kreek Knight (bm)Dual Ch. Markwell's Ramblin'Rebel (bm) Dual Ch.Alpine Cherokee Rocket (bm)Dual Ch. Kingswere Black Ebony (bm)Dual Ch. Penney Oaks Corky (bm)Dual Ch. Boley's ******** (bm)Dual Ch. Beau Brummel of Wyndale (bm) NFC/Dual Ch. Nilo Possibility (bm) Dual Ch. Dela-Winn's Tar of Craignook (bm) Dual Ch. Treveilyr Swift (bm) Dual Ch. Bengal of Arden (bm) Dual Ch. Cherokee Buck (bm)Dual Ch. Hello Joe of Rocheltree (bm) Dual Ch. Grangemead Precocious (bm) Dual Ch. Matchmaker for Deercreek (bm) Dual Ch. Bracken Sweep (bm) Dual Ch. Yodel of Moreexpense (bm) Dual Ch. Little Pierre of Deercreek (bm) Dual Ch. Braes of Arden (bf) NFC/Dual Ch. Shed of Arden (bm) Dual Ch. Gorse of Arden (bf) Dual Ch. Michael of Glenmere (bm)

Master Hunters with Conformation PointsRansom Armbrook Up A Notch MH (bf) pointedRansom's Persuasive Witness CDX MH (bf) pointedRansom's Testament of Courage CD MH (yf) pointedCan Ch. Fawnhaven Midnight Rocket RN MH (bm) pointedLinamia's Playin' Possum CD MH (yf) pointedDouble-Edged Sword MH (ym) 10 pointsDanikk's Four Wheel Drive CDX MH (bm)Chocorua's Seafarer O' Gypsy Bog MH (ym) pointedCan Ch. Ransom's Persuasive Pursuit CD MH (ym)Sure Shot Dry Creek Covergirl MH (blk F)Can Ch. Harbortop's Just In Case MH (bm)Can Ch. Blackthorns Ridgeview Wizard MH (bm) pointedCan Ch. Ransom's Perpetual Promise Am/Can CD MH (yf)Ruthless Scalawags Scarlett MH (cf)Sandlake's St. Nikolas MH (ym)Kerrybrook's Knight Hawk MH (bm)Ransom's Rudder of Graycroft CD MH (ym)Seaworthy's Superstitious MH major pointedKerrybrook's Drake Can Do MH (ym)Wyvernaxe Audley MH (ym)Master Hunters with Master Agility ChampionMACH Winroc XLT Funnel Cloud VCD1 RA TDX MH (bm)MACH Winroc Pedal To The Metal TDX MH XF (bb)MACH2 Lime Creek's Punkin Patootie VCD3 MH MXP10 MJP10 PAX3 XFP (bb)Master Hunters with Master Agility Champion and Conformation TitleCH/MACH Prospects Slam Dunk MH UDNational Obedience Champion2006 2007 NOC OTCH Chaseabout's Dances With Lions UDX12 JH MX MXJ (ym)

National Retriever Champions with Conformation Titles '58 NFC Dual Ch. Nilo Possibility (blk.M) '42,'43,'46 NFC Dual Ch. Shed Of Arden (bm)

Obedience Trial Champions with a Conformation TitleCH/OTCH Black Sands Heartbeatofamerica UDX RECH/OTCH Driftway Sentimental Guy UDXCH/OTCH Aliho's Double Dutch Gold UDX TD JH (ym)CH/OTCH Driftway Highlanda CH/OTCH Black Magic of Broad Reach (bf)

Obedience Trial Champions with Field TitlesFC/AFC/OTCH Law Abiding Ezra

Obedience Trial Champions with Master Hunter Titles OTCH Troublesome Caught Inthe Act UDX2 MH (bf) OTCH/MACH Winterset's Chilly Weather UDX2 RN MH (yf) OTCH Xtra Troublesome MH UDX3OTCH Woulda Coulda Shoulda UDX MH OTCH Plymrock's Black Diamond UDX11 MH AX AXJ (bf)OTCH Gunning Island's Black Dragon UDX7 MH OA OAJOTCH Broad Reach Diesel UDX2 TD MH (bm) OTCH Broad Reach Kiss'N Tell MHObedience

Trial Champions with Senior Hunter TitlesOTCH Oughta Be A Law UDX4 SH (bm)OTCH Plymrock Jet Propelled UDX3 SH (bf)OTCH/MACH J Mark's Spirit of Bree UDX SHOTCH Winfield's High Hopes Casey UD SHSenior Hunters with Conformation Titles or PointsLinamia Thanks for the Memories SH (bm) pointedCH Mayfair Verbena SH (bf)CH Belnaboths Just Trevor SH (ym)Winroc Knows Black SH (bm) pointedCH Prospect Bayside Storm Watch CD SH (bm)CH Diamond's Itty Bang Bang SH (yf)CH Dewberries Argonaut Atalanta RA SH (bf)Willowbank Dyna Might CD SH (bf) pointedCH Timberline Annie Get Yr Gun CD SH (yf)CH Raintree Wooly Bully RN SH (bm)CH Goldust's Optical Illusion SH (bf)Dutch Hollow's Charismatic CD SH pointedCH Dutch Hollow's TipTop CD TD SH (ym)Touchstone Spellbound at Dutch Hollow CD SH pointedBuckstone Red Delicious SHLands End Little Rascal CD SH RN (bf) pointedCH Graycroft's Distant Vision CD SHCan Ch Sunnydaze Black Max SH pointedCH Yellow Roses Rio Bravo SH (bm)CH Rockycreek Rowdy Thyme At Robnie SH (bm)CH Ransom's R Sprezzatura Stash CD SH (ym)CH Raintree Riff CDX RE SHLands End's Trouble Brewing CDX SH pointedRidge View At Gun River SH major pointedLands End Principal Prospect CDX SH (bf) pointedCH Marstad's Take Your Best Shot SH (yf)CH Sundance's Birthday Bonus, SH (ym)Sundance's Meant To Be Mine SH (bm) pointedCH Kinsey's The Thunder Rolls SHCH Jusright The Lord Was Willin' CD SH RNRansom Armbrook's Queen Bess CD SHAllegheny's Blue Ridge SH NAP major pointedAm/Can Ch. Timberline Big Ben At Fawnhaven SHCH Sandpipers Norse King Odin CD SHCH Diamond's Sid SHCH Caerbren's Crystal Wizard CD SHCampbellcroft Black Hawkeye UD SH (bm) major pointedCH Chablais Don Quixote SH (ym)CH Hollyhill By George CD SH (bm)Can Ch. Bayview's Main Attraction CDX SH (bm) pointedCH Marit Fiesta Fun for Mac UD SH NA NAJ (bf)Goldust Legacy Jewel SH UD (bf) pointedCan Ch. Cedarwood's Minnie Am/Can CD SH (yf)Dickendall Davaron Orange Ruffy SH (ym) major pointedAm/Can Ch. Cedarwood Gunner of Fawnhaven CD SH (cm)CH Janrod's Butter Bear SH (cm)Normandy's Cimarron's Renegade CD SH (bf) pointedCH Ransom's Ridgeview J.J. SH (ym)CH Somersett Miss-B-Haven Minx CD, SH (bf)CH Kellygreen's Sir Lancelott II CD SHCH Dickendall's Ruffy SH (bm)CH Inselheim Winchester SH (bm)
Thats some working dogs that also look pretty and vis a versa..... but how many would pass the health clearences "sniff test"
john
 
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