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Thread: Is there a best ever???

  1. #121
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAYDOG View Post
    Yes, to each their own, in a FT you can have a bunch of good dogs, great dogs, and one may be better then the rest, but any time the human factor comes into play, decisions can be swayed. Same as in conformation. I have seen dogs loose to inferior dogs in conformation, just because another dog was hot, or their handler was hot, ton of politics involved. Same can be held true for a Open dog, with a name worthy handler?? If all dogs ran clean tests, then how does a judge determine 1st , 2nd etc?? The human factor comes in. In hunt test it's either pass / fail. Period, all human factors are removed. I like that dogs in HT's have prove themselves in "Hunt like" scenarios. No white coats, people in chairs reading and rustling papers to distract a dog. I grew up in Field Trials all my life. Didn't start HT till late 80's early 90's. I prefer HT, more realistic to me is all, and more attainable to the average guy, he passes or does not pass. No missing out because your dog wasn't well known, or handled by the new hot rod Pro handler. No argument that top level dogs , from both styles, would be great hunters. And that a MH couldn't compete in FT, and a FC couldn't compete in HT's.

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  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin S View Post
    Code Blue was a nice looking dog of about 70#, his sire Code Red was an idiot that had several titled siblings. He was a dog that could do everything well was tractable on the line & managed to pickup about 125 Amat AA points while being handled by someone who did not make being a good handler his top priority. We all ran the circuit at about the same time & competed head to head for several years. In training, CB would blink a bumper if there was bird scent in the area, about his only fault once he was through AA training. His owner was very selective in who he bred to, hence not a lot of CB pups.

    Lean Mac was trained early by Dennis Robbins. Jock ran this circuit when he was in the states but really cleaned up in Canada. I thought him to be a somewhat coarse looking dog lacking a real smooth gait. His Water blinds, crabbing down to the water were not something most people found appealing & that tendency was exhibited in his pups, most of whom were very expensive. As he got older & I ran into him on the MT circuit I thought him to be weak on big water (it's called blowing bubbles)& on occasion he exhibited that on smaller water. His 1st breeding was to FC-AFC Carroll's Black Velvet, a very good dog in her own right, & those pups were well placed in the retriever world. CBV then disappeared from the scene. Some awful good trainers in this sport would disagree with me about LM & in many cases have enjoyed great success. But I'm reminded of the training session where a somewhat novice in the sport had purchased one of those $2,500 pups brought it through the derby with some success & had sent it to a very good trainer for advanced work. We're watching the dog crab down to the water with the feeling the dog may have some cat genes & the owner is emoting up by the trucks, asking what can be done & told that they own a well pedigreed hunting dog, if he'll even do that. For the trainer who owns a lot of dogs & washes out a lot that's not a big deal, but for the person in this sport who does it one at a time, it's 3 years out of their competitive career. I'd personally rather go to a HT & try to find something for $750 that looked trainable to the FT level than take a chance that I would end up with a dog with that lack of pleasure to the eye. BTW, that owner no longer plays for whatever reason.
    News flash Marv: Lean Mac, That coarse looking dog who lacked a smooth gate and crabbed to the water where he did "unappealing water blinds and blew bubbles and was weak on both big and little water happened to get more AA points than Code Blue. He also happened to win 4 National Am Championships, the most ever. In addition he finished over 120 consecutive National seriesl a phenomenal accomplishment.

    His people must have been better at playing the politics that BAYDOG complains about better than anyone, for that wretched dog to ever have advanced past any water series

    I'd say you need to update your famously objective judging website. You need to label as a cheat anyone who ever gave that miserable wretch of a dog a placement

    Furthemore, since you said he passed those miserable traits on to his puppies, and over 150 of them went on to title{more than double the 2nd best stud in history}I'd venture to say that the judging pool is tainted to the core.

  3. #123
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    Get the popcorn, seems to me many RTF members could fight in church over the sermon.

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  4. #124
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backwater View Post
    Get the popcorn, seems to me many RTF members could fight in church over the sermon.
    Yep... It's sort of like bow hunters turning up their noses at crossbows and other such nonsense... All types of dog work is good dog work in my opinion... Would the dogs be better off on a chain in someone's back yard?

    The average guy gets so wrapped up in his own life that he thinks his way is the only (or best way) of doing something. There are great dogs out there in every venue, every region of the country, and believe it or not their are some great ones that don't play our games... They "just" hunt.
    Last edited by huntinman; 01-31-2014 at 11:19 AM. Reason: Sp
    Bill Davis

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntinman View Post
    Yep... It's sort of like bow hunters turning up their noses at crossbows and other such nonsense... All types of dog work is good dog work in my opinion... Would the dogs be better off on a chain in someone's back yard?

    The average guy gets so wrapped up in his own life that he thinks his way is the only (or best way) of doing something. There are great dogs out thir in every venue, every region of the country, and believe it or not their are some great ones that don't play our games... They "just" hunt.
    Well said!!

  6. #126
    Senior Member coachmo's Avatar
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    I don't think it would be impossible to determine which dog(s) was/were "the greatest" but you have to define the categories, criteria and time span used to make the assessment. As pointed out through several posts certain dogs will be considered great at various aspects in the retriever world.

  7. #127
    Senior Member shawninthesticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntinman View Post
    Yep... It's sort of like bow hunters turning up their noses at crossbows and other such nonsense... All types of dog work is good dog work in my opinion... Would the dogs be better off on a chain in someone's back yard?

    The average guy gets so wrapped up in his own life that he thinks his way is the only (or best way) of doing something. There are great dogs out thir in every venue, every region of the country, and believe it or not their are some great ones that don't play our games... They "just" hunt.
    Completely agree.
    Shawn White

    HR Big Creek Retrievers Independence Day JH QAA "Indy "

  8. #128
    Senior Member Sharon Potter's Avatar
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    I can't believe nobody has mentioned Mr. Peabody. I mean, come on....the dude invented a time travel machine. How much better can a dog get?
    Sharon Potter

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  9. #129
    Senior Member 2tall's Avatar
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    HaHaHaHaHa! I finally get Marvin's intended insult when he said according to pedigree I had a dog that liked water like a cat!!!!!! I thought he was talking about my young one, (who has NO Lean Mac) but NOOOOOOOO! He was talking about Indy!!!! I am rolling on the floor laughing about that, anyone who has ever seen Indy attack the water knows why! "Outboard Indy"!
    Carol,
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  10. #130

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    Quote Originally Posted by huntinman View Post
    There are great dogs out thir in every venue, every region of the country, and believe it or not their are some great ones that don't play our games... They "just" hunt.

    I owed one of them. The dog came from good Field Trial lines (FC AFC Yellowstone's TNT Explosion) but never competed in HT or FT. His desire to retrieve and love of water was a site to behold (why jump into the water when you can leap at full speed EVERY TIME). To him, it didn't matter if it was a duck, a bumper or a tennis ball .... the style, speed and efficiency were the same. Ran and swam straight as an arrow. Didn't break but he was a creeper - haha. My only regret was not having him professionally trained as I know he could have earned FC/AFC. I had to put him down last August after 10 wonderful years (kidney disease). That dog brought us lots of love, laughs and great memories. We miss him everyday.

    Remember, when you argue about which ones were the best, you are comparing degrees of greatness. Any dog that achieves FC/AFC is special.
    Last edited by pcarpenter; 01-31-2014 at 11:07 AM.

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