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Thread: force to pile issues

  1. #1
    Senior Member Rhenee Fadling's Avatar
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    Default force to pile issues

    1 year old ylf, soft, super athletic, lots of bird exposure, birdy as heck, has her Certified pointing title, SHR, great at tests, test dog, lots of good stuff from this dog. Used Mertens puppy dvd, moved on to using the Farmer/Aycock Basics DVD. Solid OB, through force fetch, walking fetch, not a lot of refusal, did fine w/ ear pinch, great bird/bumper manners, collar conditioned to "here", always been a quick learner seems to "get it" w/o a lot of correction. So you say "what the heck", move onto force to pile. We're distracted, low energy. Today my husband took over and lots of refusal and finally shut down. Trying to keep it upbeat, but feeling way too much like were losing the work part of it all and need to think outside of the box. Also thinking about "shelving" the FTP for a while.
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    Senior Member RobinZClark's Avatar
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    I am also doing FTP so will follow this with interest. I will say that I recently had an experience with another dog, my border collie, who is 75% finished with her OTCH...at the end of July she was very low energy and was not performing as well as she does normally. Long story short, she had some serious health issues. She is on the mend now, but I am so glad that I pursued this as a health issue instead of as a training issue. I had to consult with THREE different vets before I felt like her issues were being taken seriously.

    I am doing FTP with my golden (it is going fairly well...knock wood). Can you please say what program you are following? How far away is the pile? Are you doing remote sends or side sends? At what point are you nicking her on the send? What percentage of time do you nick her on sends? How do you decide when to nick her?

    How did she do with simple casting? If you go back and do a simple casting drill with her does she make mistakes? What is her attitude on simple casting?

    And lastly, could she be coming into season or having hormonal issues? What is the temperature when you are doing your sessions?

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    Senior Member Dustin D's Avatar
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    Are you using the Farmer/Aycock FTP Method?

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    Senior Member Rhenee Fadling's Avatar
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    Yes, from the older farmer/aycock basics dvd, not the newer force fetch dvd. I have the new one, but i'm following the older, basics program unless someone says I really need to forgo the old and get with the new. I may review the new just to see if we can get moving with this.

    I feel confident that she is healthy and well. She has a lot of energy around home, kennel and in the field. At one year we could be looking at a first heat.
    Last edited by Rhenee Fadling; 09-05-2014 at 01:59 PM.
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    Senior Member Wayne Nutt's Avatar
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    Not familiar with your DVD but it seems to me that you may have skipped a step. Does your program do full cc and collar fetch? How do you FORCE to the pile?
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    Senior Member Rhenee Fadling's Avatar
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    at this point the distance to the piles is short, 6 feet, dog is on leash, if there's a refusal, at close distance you ear pinch to the pile. No e-collar at this point while the piles are close. Not like Graham where you transition from ear pinch to e-collar while sitting on the bucket with your hand under the collar before you go outside to walking fetch, and ftp where the dog is collar conditioned .
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    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    If you place a pile of bumpers 3 feet from the dog,and command "Fetch",, Does the dog dive for a bumper every time?

    If you put the dog on a leash, and walk the dog through a course of randomly placed bumpers on the ground,, will she walk at heel past a bumper? Will she she quickly dive for a bumper if commanded to "Fetch?

    are these 2 activities solid, with very few, if ANY refusals?

    Have you done "stick fetch?
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    Senior Member Dustin D's Avatar
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    Does this mean that FF needs to be gone over again?

    Or maybe much shorter sessions? little by very little success sessions that builds up to longer successful sessions?

    I know there was a time where my FTP session on a dog two years ago was 2 minutes long. Then 4 min. Then 5 minutes.
    Then we'd get about 10 Fetches to pile in a row good and we were on our way.

    Just throwing some ideas out there.

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    Senior Member Furball's Avatar
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    Are you starting from a sit or walking her toward the pile before commanding fetch? Did you do walking fetch with the ear pinch before this step? Will she drag you to a single bumper (either thrown or placed on the ground) -- and I mean literally drag, as you hold tight the leash and she has to really pull to get it? Do you have someone either a pro or experienced amateur that can watch one of your sessions?
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  10. #10
    Senior Member Rhenee Fadling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    If you place a pile of bumpers 3 feet from the dog,and command "Fetch",, Does the dog dive for a bumper every time?

    Not "diving" but going for it, not as aggressivley as the dogs in the video.
    If you put the dog on a leash, and walk the dog through a course of randomly placed bumpers on the ground,, will she walk at heel past a bumper? Will she she quickly dive for a bumper if commanded to "Fetch?

    are these 2 activities solid, with very few, if ANY refusals?

    Honestly, they could be faster, but she does the work, rarely a refusal.
    Have you done "stick fetch?

    No, I haven't.
    We were working on introduction to the short side piles today with lots of confusion and refusals and ear pinch to the piles, I thought she shut down. I appreciate your response.
    Last edited by Rhenee Fadling; 09-05-2014 at 05:58 PM.
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