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Thread: Need help

  1. #31
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    No, this is not the norm. This breeder is trying to make you jump through hoops in order to not have to honor the contract. I'm not the brightest crayon in the box but I would think that they would have asked for credentials and Dx from the opthamologist not an orthopedic specialist.

  2. #32
    Senior Member windycanyon's Avatar
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    I am taking a litter of pups in today. Last I knew, the OFA EYE form contains the same categories as the CERF form. If the bubbles "significance of cataract unknown" are not filled in, that generally means they suspect genetic. Also, was this a juvenile cataract or was it a punctate? Also depends on the location on the eye. I like that my ACVO is a Visla breeder/hunt tester/field trialer because she relates everything (folds, cataracts etc) back to how it will affect the dog in the field. Ask your ACVO to clarify that if at all possible. Also, why wasn't the chip scanned and noted on that form? Doesn't matter (to me anyhow) if OFA has the info... I'd send the actual form (hoping you made a copy) to your breeder and if you didn't save a copy, your ACVO should have retained one for their files and I'm sure would provide you w/ one.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Wow; that is a well put together specific breeder response. This must be one of those Larger kennel operations; seems easy enough to get through such hoops; and they are willing to work with you. However most people I've know who have had experience with genetic issues, have never been this formal. Usually you contact them, they remember you, you turn in the vet report. Then they discuss with you what should be done, based on an individual basis. The breeder is usually more concerned than you are and bend over backwards to make things right. There's usually no push for micro-chipping, verification, etc. Still I could understand how such might be necessary with a larger many dog operation, or for some law student who kept very specific records . Still just my experience but these cases don't come up very often, thus response is usually very individualized, I'm surprised you didn't receive a phone call.
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 02-04-2014 at 11:20 AM.
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  4. #34
    Senior Member Lonnie Spann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billyocean1642 View Post
    Breeder sent me this back today. Is this stuff pretty standard for the breeders on this site.

    1. Please submit a copy of Zulu's contract bearing both your and my signatures as well as the stamp from the DATAMARS identification system verifying Zulu's microchip number (the stamp should be located on the first and last pages of the contract);

    2. Please submit a diagnosis and/or letter from a state certified veterinarian and/or veterinary orthopedic specialist providing:

    a) verification that the dog has been scanned and a microchip matching that on Zulu's contract has been detected;
    b) a statement that she/he is the physician who examined the dog and signed the letter and diagnosis;
    b) a diagnosis which describes a cataract matching that of the one on her OFA report;
    c) a diagnosis that the cataract is definitively heritable in cause;
    d) a diagnosis that the cataract is severe enough to prevent Zulu from functioning as a gun dog; and
    e) a diagnosis that the catarct is irreversible/incurable in nature.


    Since Zulu's microchip number was not indicated on the OFA report, we can verify the report by doing the following:

    3. Please submit a letter on the organization's letterhead bearing Dr. Barrett Gift's original signature which states:
    Zulu's microchip number and
    that the dog indicated on the OFA report had been scanned and the microchip number above was detected immediately prior to the eye exam performed on 1/28/2014.



    If you could just get all of these together in one folder, send a hard copy packet with original signatures (a photocopy of Zulu's purchase contract is sufficient) to:

    A genetic defect is a genetic defect, period. Doesn't matter if it is "severe enough to prevent Zulu from functioning as a gun dog." A blind dog can function as a gun dog. I think I remember a blind dog in the HRC magazine that ran and passed Finished? Someone correct me if I am wrong.

    "A diagnosis that the cataract is irreversible/incurable in nature." My opinion is that THERE SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN A CATARACT TO BEGIN WITH!!!!

    Lonnie Spann
    DISCLAIMER: The above post is the opinionated and biased view of your's truly, Lonnie Spann, and is in no way intended to reflect the opinions or views of the unfortunate individuals named below who just happen to be doomed with guilt by association.

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  5. #35
    Senior Member JusticeDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Marshall View Post
    No, this is not the norm. This breeder is trying to make you jump through hoops in order to not have to honor the contract. I'm not the brightest crayon in the box but I would think that they would have asked for credentials and Dx from the opthamologist not an orthopedic specialist.
    Well, it may be too early to jump to this conclusion. I know breeders that have had people submit pups from different breeders in order to try and get money back. It sounds like this one may be in the same boat, or have had it happen to friends. At this point, they are just wanting to verify that the pup is the one in question, and that it was a hereditary issue, as opposed to getting injured that caused a cataract. What they have asked for isn't hard to do at this point. THe hooks to jump through are not that big. Maybe compulsive, but not that big.

    With that being said, I would like to know what the original contract wording says.... I have seen many breeders try to enhance what they are entitled to have for a refund.
    Susan

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  6. #36

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    Thanks for the responses. I have a copy of the contract and it pretty much mirrors what it says here. I don't want to post the name and get into a mud slinging contest toward the breeder. They didnt scan the chip but she is going back Friday for another exam where they will scan chip. Talked to the doctor today and he said legally he can't answer or gaurantee some of the stuff she is asking for. I have no problem providing what she needs. My thinking is if its a genetic defect it's pretty cut and dry. The dog has never been injured and has all shots and is in perfect health. My wife works at a vet is she is super anal about making sure our dogs are well tabes care of . I will try and get copy of guarantee posted.

  7. #37

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    When I contacted her Friday night after sending her exam results she said give me a few days to get all the stuff together that she needed from me so I imagine that she typed that list up on in between the time I contacted he and when I posted this. I have been very cooperative about getting her what she needs and will continue to do so. The only negative I have seen from this breeder was in. 08-09 she had a client give a deposit and she lost the litter to parvo and then refused to give deposit bAck. She was taken to court and lost but last I heard never paid the judgement so that is the only concern I have about getting the situation remedied.

    afain thanks for evetyones responses and time.

  8. #38
    Senior Member HNTFSH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billyocean1642 View Post
    The only negative I have seen from this breeder was in. 08-09 she had a client give a deposit and she lost the litter to parvo and then refused to give deposit bAck. She was taken to court and lost but last I heard never paid the judgement so that is the only concern I have about getting the situation remedied.
    Is that all? lol
    We shoot dogs with a Canon

  9. #39

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    Yeah really. I would have rethought the decision if I had known that before hand. Someone told me about it in the last week or so

  10. #40

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    Here is a copy of the health guarantee

    a) Puppy is AKC registered/ register-able; and is being sold with AKC full ; AKC limited registration. AKC full registration means that the dog is registered, that litters produced by the dog are eligible for AKC registration and that the dog may be entered in breed competitions and other AKC events.
    b) At the time of sale, this puppy has been evaluated by the breeder with respect to the breed standards as outlined by the AKC and has been determined to be suited as a companion, hunting, show (field/hunt) ; and/or breeding dog. This suitability does not imply any guarantee regarding the dogís performance as such.
    c) This puppy has been examined by the breeder a veterinarian and has been found to be of good health, soundness and conformation;
    d) Seller will provide Buyer with a replacement pup of same sex and of Sellerís choosing, if within 26 months of purchase, puppy is physically incapacitated beyond use for the purpose purchased (See Para 1b due to genetic/hereditary defect, provided Buyer meets conditions listed below.
    2. Buyer agrees to provide the dog with adequate care to include housing/shelter, nutrition, exercise, training, medical/veterinarian, parasite control, vaccinations and grooming. Buyer warrants that:
    a) Buyer will have puppy examined by a veterinarian within 72 hours of delivery and notify Seller of an initial 30-day unfavorable health diagnosis within 24 hours of said diagnosis;
    b) Buyer will have puppy screened for genetic/hereditary defects by a veterinarian and/or genetics laboratory and diagnosed in writing by the time the puppy reaches 26 months of age;
    c) Buyer will provide Seller with a written diagnosis of genetic/hereditary defect, issued by a state certified veterinarian and/or genetics laboratory within 7 days of receipt of diagnosis prior to the puppy attaining 26 months of age;
    d) Buyer will maintain the puppy's schedule of vaccinations as recommended by a state certified veterinarian;
    e) Buyer will initiate a heartworm preventative program in accordance with a schedule recommended by a state certified veterinarian;
    f) Buyer will begin a parasite control program for the puppy to protect against parasites such as hookworm, round worm, ascarids, whipworm and tapeworm;
    g) Buyer will provide dog with adequate shelter/housing to include protection from the elements and a large properly fenced area in which to exercise.
    h) Buyer will maintain a healthy weight for the dog based on exercise and a healthy diet to include a quality dog food as recommended by Seller or a veterinarian;
    i) If for any reason, Buyer must part with the dog, Buyer agrees to either properly re-home the dog or contact Seller for assistance in proper re-homing;
    j) If Buyer returns puppy to Seller for any reason, all supporting health/genetics documentation, puppy health records; and registration/pedigree papers will be returned to Seller.
    3. Disclaimers and Special Conditions
    a) Seller has had puppy implanted with a microchip with the number to be entered into this contract and to be applied to all health records and any subsequent claims pertaining to genetic defects.
    b) No other health guarantee, explicit or implicit, is made outside of what is written in this contract. Paragraph 1(d) of Seller Warrants is null and void if Dog has been bred or is over 26 months in age.
    c) If the dog is used heavily for field trialing, open obedience, hunting, or any other strenuous activity (including "roading") prior to attaining one year of age, environmentally induced dysplasia and other joint problems may develop. If such conditions occur, paragraph 1(d) of Seller Warrants are at Sellerís discretion.
    d) Poor nutrition, housing/shelter, medical care, parasite control, vaccination schedule, grooming and exercise practices can negatively and severely impact the health and soundness of a puppy. Paragraph 1(d) of Seller Warrants is null and void if Buyer fails to provide adequate care for the dog.
    e) Transporting a dog without adequate and appropriate protection, confinement or tethering can lead to serious injury, debilitation or death. Paragraph 1(d) of Seller Warrants is null and void if Buyer fails to appropriately & safely transport the dog.
    f) The puppy has received the following vaccinations and medical treatments:
    See attached health record.
    g) The puppy has been implanted with a microchip #​​​
    All claims pertaining to the puppy will require positive identification via microchip scanning and all documentation must reference the microchip number.

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