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Thread: AKC hunt test limit dogs per handler?

  1. #111
    Senior Member Moose Mtn's Avatar
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    I still fail to see why a PUBLICISED opening Day/time of entries is not an option here.
    Brian & Jennifer Tucker
    Bennett, Colorado

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  2. #112
    Senior Member HNTFSH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Shih View Post

    And what does that say about you? The RAC never brought it up for discussion.
    lol...It means I wasn't fully paying attention my way out the door. But I wasn't proposing a solution for a different issue either. Geesh!

    So your plan was so good for something else no one discussed it for it's INTENDED purpose?

    Too much.
    We shoot dogs with a Canon

  3. #113
    Senior Member HNTFSH's Avatar
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    Tidewater Retriever Club, VA. MN club. 60 dog master running end of march. Full. No more than 5 dogs per any handler.

    What do we do?
    We shoot dogs with a Canon

  4. #114
    Senior Member Doug Main's Avatar
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    Dr. Ed & Ted's proposal seems like the perfect solution for hunt tests.

    The criticisms of it for field trials do t apply for no competative hunt tests. There are no "restricted" options that aren't being used in hunt tests.

    As Bubba said its all about fairness.

  5. #115
    Senior Member Good Dogs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Brakke View Post
    David,

    Please help me out on this situation. At our last test, that filled within 3 days and we had a 60 limit set, and of course we had 3 scratches known well before 4 days prior to the test date but after the Close date and time. And, of course, we had club members that did not get in early on during the short open so they tried to get in and replace those known scratches. They were told it was too late. I do not know who told them EE or the HT secretary, because it was after the close and that was the reason given. Thus we ran a 60 limit Master with 57 dogs.

    What is allowed here by the EE and AKC? Is the close a hard set lock in with the exception of a scratch? I have done all of the other duties involved for a HT but never Hunt Test Secretary so I am not clear what is allowable here. Thanks!

    It seems to me that having a waiting list approach would allow a complete fill of the limited number of spots. I know there is no mechanism now to manage a wait list and I know there are some strict rules around the AKC close date. Seems like the AKC should address this new problem and allow some sort of waiting list process then EE can put a fair process, first come first serve no mickey mouse stuff, in place to insure all slots are filled. The waiting list would start the moment the test is filled and a option on EE is provided to tentatively enter your dog awaiting a scratch or opening.
    The rule book is always a good place to start. Here is what it says:
    "A club holding an AKC-licensed or member club
    Hunting Test shall not accept any entries received after
    the closing time and date specified in the premium list."

    The AKC made it clear when they accepted the change allowing limited entries that entries would strictly "first come, first served" and "no waiting list."
    If clubs have a better idea there is a process to get the proposal to AKC performance events and that normally starts with the RHTAC. Or, y'all could keep filling pages on RTF until it gets warm enough to get back outside and train.
    82 in FL but the water is cool. I'm outa here.

  6. #116
    Senior Member HNTFSH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Good Dogs View Post
    The rule book is always a good place to start. Here is what it says:
    "A club holding an AKC-licensed or member club
    Hunting Test shall not accept any entries received after
    the closing time and date specified in the premium list."

    The AKC made it clear when they accepted the change allowing limited entries that entries would strictly "first come, first served" and "no waiting list."
    If clubs have a better idea there is a process to get the proposal to AKC performance events and that normally starts with the RHTAC. Or, y'all could keep filling pages on RTF until it gets warm enough to get back outside and train.
    82 in FL but the water is cool. I'm outa here.
    Well put. I realize there is not a simple or easy solution. But those posed need to be realistic. I work in process improvement within the Global Fortune 1000. There are technical processes that must align with policies that must satisfy an end-user. Until then, register early and clubs will have to find work-arounds as will handlers. Blaming Pro's ain't going to get folks anywhere.
    We shoot dogs with a Canon

  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
    DR. Aycock and Ted Shih have proposed a pretty elegant solution.
    Allow the club to evaluate the logistics (hours of daylight/grounds/help/whatever) and come up wit a rough estimate of the number of dogs that they can run and still put on a quality event. Then open the entries to all. At the close of entries - select 1 dog from each owner - in the event of a co-owned dogs select only one instance such that any name appears only once. After the initial round if enough additional slots will support one more pass through the entries then a second dog from each owner (again with the co-owner caveat). Repeat until the clubs pre-established maximum is met and then close entries. Wallah- the club has control of the entries that will allow them to ensure that they won't be overwhelmed, the entries are divided without regards to race, religion, sexual preference or occupation (or lack of any of the preceding).
    Seems pretty simple and fair to me.

    This is a finite world that we live in and we are at the limits of finding new grounds/help/time/energy/whatever. Sure is interesting that the folks that are most interested in seeing the availability increase without bounds are also the same ones that don't have the time/energy/background/inclination to help out.



    All about fairness regards

    Bubba

    This

    Hey Bubba, that proposal has a familar ring to it

    http://www.retrievertraining.net/for...=1#post1184352
    Last edited by john fallon; 02-02-2014 at 05:28 PM.
    "i guess the old saying 'those of us that think we know everything annoy those of you that does' " --bobbyb 9/13/06

    "A Good Dog is a Good Dog"

  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by yellow machine View Post
    One option is to limit the number of dogs a person can register in a day, pro or am. That way it can't fill in a matter of an hour. No refunds if you have more than 10 dogs registered?
    The beauty is in its simplicity.......

    john
    "i guess the old saying 'those of us that think we know everything annoy those of you that does' " --bobbyb 9/13/06

    "A Good Dog is a Good Dog"

  9. #119
    Senior Member Good Dogs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moose Mtn View Post
    I still fail to see why a PUBLICISED opening Day/time of entries is not an option here.
    It is an option. The club can post it on their EE premium or send out an email to, for instance, members advising the opening time. The HT sec'y need only advise EE as to the desired opening. Been there, done that. Worked just dandy.

  10. #120
    Senior Member fishduck's Avatar
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    All of this discussion is missing the point. The problem is simply the disappearance of the owner/handler. These individuals are the marshals, shooters, equipment guys, cooks and general gophers that keep the test moving. They are the people you call if you need a 4 wheeler, test dog, set up dog, pick up dog, extra equipment or anything else. They show up early and stay late. Simply stated, they know the game & are passionate about it.

    In my area you can count the 1-2 dog amateurs on 1 hand with fingers left over still playing in the 3rd series of most Master tests. IMHO the tests are becoming tighter and more technical. Very difficult to earn a MH without access to technical water.

    Why do we have pros running 20+ dogs?
    #1: Money. It is cheaper to put a dog on someone's truck & split expenses. Covering gas, hotel and meals on a long trip makes handling fees with a pro a bargain.
    #2: Success rates. A pro running 20+ dogs will get a feel for the series. His first dogs might not get that benefit but I guarantee his later dogs will.
    #3: Knowledge: your average owner running 1 or 2 dogs will take a lifetime to learn what a pro learns in one season training & running a truck load of dogs.
    #4: Time. Most amateurs do not have the time needed to train a dog to the higher levels.

    This is in no way a rant against pros. Most are the very picture of the word "professional"! Without them most clubs would disappear into bankruptcy within a year.

    My point would be to focus on what can be done to encourage the owner/handler.
    #1: Mentor: we all have something to offer. Train with these newcomers. The sharing of knowledge, equipment & grounds is a huge help to someone starting out.
    #2: Demonstrate. Most people have no idea what our dogs are capable of doing. The first time I saw a dog run a true blind retrieve, I knew I would someday own such an animal.
    #3: As a club member push for more training days. Advertise them and make them open to all,
    #4: Encourage. We have all crashed & burned at a test or trial. I don't remember who congratulated me when my dogs succeeded. However I remember every word of a conversation when my dog failed. It was my first hunt test dog & 157 whistles to pick up the Seasoned memory bird was a few too many. I left the line totally humiliated & ready to quit the game. A few kind words from a nice lady to the effect that most had experienced the same thing gave me the courage to come back Sunday. Failed that one too. Trained harder & passed the next ones. That lady was a pro.

    Just my thoughts
    Mark Land

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