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Thread: This ones got me stumped

  1. #1
    Senior Member fishin444's Avatar
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    Default This ones got me stumped

    I'm training my male for his master hunter tests,and he's doing pretty well. Doing some nice long triple marks and blinds. water and land. I'm thinking he's just about there when he destroys the bird on a long land mark. He does fine in his next two weeks of training then he rips up another bird on a water blind. Then yesterday another one on a water mark. He doesn't have a hard mouth, if anything he's just the opposite doesn't hold birds or bumpers firmly enough as far as I can see. I normally train with thawed birds that I collect from bird hunting and I clean them of any blood residue before they get used. I know they are not as good as fresh ones, but it's got me scratching my head as this is a new one on me. He's not trying to eat them or anything like that and I really don't notice him mouthing the birds on his way back. I have noticed some side to side head shaking but nothing real crazy like tossing the bird wildly. Any one have any suggestions on how to remedy this problem?

  2. #2
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    This might be a very stupid question on my part considering the level you are testing for, but I have to ask. Was this dog FF?
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Bruce MacPherson's Avatar
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    You might want to describe destroying.
    "The longer you let a dog go in the wrong direction the more they think they are going in the right direction" Don Remien.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishin444 View Post
    I normally train with thawed birds that I collect from bird hunting and I clean them of any blood residue before they get used. I know they are not as good as fresh ones, but it's got me scratching my head as this is a new one on me.
    This might be your problem your training with nice birds. Hunt tests usually don't have nice birds, they have blown to bits, out in the sun, sometimes really nasty birds, that smell and taste great to a dog. Master level being, the trained dogs you are more likely to have these type of squishy birds So why your dog is FF and has a respect for fresh birds, he hasn't been trained to handle the junk bird. You should be training with the skunkiest birds you can find, once he learns that he must also respect those birds, your problem should go away. Then again if a dog develops a bird issue and it isn't corrected in a quick no-nonsense way, it may become a constant maintenance issue.
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 01-30-2014 at 12:01 PM.
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  5. #5
    Senior Member labsforme's Avatar
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    You may have to go Amish on this one and the second he starts on the bird run and get in his face and make sure he holds the bird and then call him in. Don't let him man handle the birds. Treat it as an extended FF. If you can't get there in time then shorten your distances so you have control. If you are working with a pro get help ASAP.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishin444 View Post
    I'm training my male for his master hunter tests,and he's doing pretty well. Doing some nice long triple marks and blinds. water and land. I'm thinking he's just about there when he destroys the bird on a long land mark. He does fine in his next two weeks of training then he rips up another bird on a water blind. Then yesterday another one on a water mark. He doesn't have a hard mouth, if anything he's just the opposite doesn't hold birds or bumpers firmly enough as far as I can see. I normally train with thawed birds that I collect from bird hunting and I clean them of any blood residue before they get used. I know they are not as good as fresh ones, but it's got me scratching my head as this is a new one on me. He's not trying to eat them or anything like that and I really don't notice him mouthing the birds on his way back. I have noticed some side to side head shaking but nothing real crazy like tossing the bird wildly. Any one have any suggestions on how to remedy this problem?
    More info needed
    You say he "destroyed" some birds. You also said he doesn't have a hard mouth; "if anything he's just the opposite"
    Those statements don't jibe IMHO

  7. #7
    Senior Member frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt'EmUp View Post
    This might be your problem your training with nice birds. Hunt tests usually don't have nice birds, they have blown to bits, out in the sun, sometimes really nasty birds, that smell and taste great to a dog. Master level being, the trained dogs you are more likely to have these type of squishy birds So why your dog is FF and has a respect for fresh birds, he hasn't been trained to handle the junk bird. You should be training with the skunkiest birds you can find, once he learns that he must also respect those birds, your problem should go away. Then again if a dog develops a bird issue and it isn't corrected in a quick no-nonsense way, it may become a constant maintenance issue.
    Agree, but also check ears for sign of infection and teeth as well. If he has an infection going on in either, it may cause him some discomfort when holding the bird, hence the side to side head shaking.. just another thought.
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Mark Littlejohn's Avatar
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    Poor mouth habits (what you're calling a not firm enough hold) on bumpers and fresh birds is due to incomplete Hold/FF training, which is morphing into Hardmouth.
    Hardmouth often starts with wet, squishy, skanky birds.
    It can really start to show itself on the last bird of a water series.
    Don't ask me how I know.

  9. #9
    Senior Member fishin444's Avatar
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    Yes he's been FF. He's never put a tooth mark on any bumper I've sent him for. He'll let one get out of his mouth every once in a while but always will pick it back up and bring it in. Which is my reasoning for saying that he doesn't hold firmly enough. Tearing a half a breast or the gut cavity up on a bird is what I mean by destroying a bird. Ergo according the rules rendering a bird unfit for consumption. Hopefully I've cleared up any questions and sorry for causing any misunderstandings by posting an incomplete message. I have him back with my pro trainer currently.

  10. #10
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    The shaking is a kill response. What do you do when he starts to destroy a bird?
    deb

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