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Thread: eye contact ?

  1. #31
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backwater View Post
    A question.....How many National Champions were trained with clickers and cheese balls? Just finished reading and re-reading Lardy's program , he states training is a time for heeling sticks and electric collars, not a time for weenies. His quote not mine. He won seven national titles more than any other trainer, ever.
    Wow, way to mischaracterize Lardy. I don't expect he ever used a clicker though he might treat train little puppies, but Lardy was one of the first to make it generally acceptable to teach first, correct later and give the dog the benefit of doubt when you're not sure. That may have been a direct quote, but taken out of context. Lardy leans on the softer side compared to many old school trainers.

  2. #32
    Junior Member GRun's Avatar
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    Training with Mike Lardy Volume 1, 2nd Ed., page 3 from the October/November 1995 RTJ, "...though formal ob will come later, ...He can even learn simple casting games on the kitchen floor. Food rewards (like hot dog pieces) are appropriate...".

    Also, page 5 of the same article Mr. Lardy provides "Mike's OB Thoughts for Today"..."...the distinction between the early stages of training of OB using treats, other forms of praise, and gentle persuasion, and the more formal stage can be quite blurred."

    Good enough for me.

    To me, the 2nd Edition of these articles is worth it just for the "Thoughts for Today" that Mr. Lardy provides.
    Jeff

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backwater View Post
    A question.....How many National Champions were trained with clickers and cheese balls? Just finished reading and re-reading Lardy's program , he states training is a time for heeling sticks and electric collars, not a time for weenies. His quote not mine. He won seven national titles more than any other trainer, ever.
    Hmm interesting! Lets see FC/AFC Mioak's Criquetpas (National Open Finalist), FC/AFC Morgan le Fae of Buckshot (170 open/all-age points Lardy's truck), FC/AFC/CFC Yo You Kaytee KK, FC/AFC Minare Risqué of Buckshot, FC Landover's Ms Mouse, FC/AFC Criquetpas Gettum Duke, to name just a few, were all trained with cut up hot dogs as treats until about three months old. How do I know because I fed them the hot dogs, owned or co-owned all of them , five of them through a Derby Career, two of them through their FC/AFC. Don't tell the Pros that eventualy trained them though, that they were fed pieces of hot dogs, especially Mike, Pat, Wayne, Andy, Jim you can fill in the last names....
    Earl Dillow

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Criquetpas View Post
    Hmm interesting! Lets see FC/AFC Mioak's Criquetpas (National Open Finalist), FC/AFC Morgan le Fae of Buckshot (170 open/all-age points Lardy's truck), FC/AFC/CFC Yo You Kaytee KK, FC/AFC Minare Risqué of Buckshot, FC Landover's Ms Mouse, FC/AFC Criquetpas Gettum Duke, to name just a few, were all trained with cut up hot dogs as treats until about three months old. How do I know because I fed them the hot dogs, owned or co-owned all of them , five of them through a Derby Career, two of them through their FC/AFC. Don't tell the Pros that eventualy trained them though, that they were fed pieces of hot dogs, especially Mike, Pat, Wayne, Andy, Jim you can fill in the last names....
    So the experts here on RTF equate a cheese ball for a 12 weeks old pup, THE factor in their success? Also the question wasn't FC AFC is was NFC, just a little bit of a difference, but I could be wrong. I thought NFC was different then FC, maybe not.
    Not saying one should not praise their dogs, I sure do, have a box of biscuits in the truck all the time, but when it is business, there are no clickers, weenies, or taped episodes of "The View" on the truck.

    "Don't tell me about your friend who thinks choke collars, heeling sticks, and electronic collars are cruel and unnecessary, so he uses weenies. He probably doesn't hunt, or else he has a dog that doesn't share our passion for October and all the birds that go it it", (Lardy, 2013, p. 4).


    References
    Lardy, M. (2013). Basic Obediance. Training with Mike Lardy, 2, 4.

    "This ain't Burger King, you don't get it your way"


    Backwater's Ole' Crow Medicine Show SH "Raven" BLF 7/26/11 (NFC FC AFC Hunter's Run Boo Boo x AFC Beat The Rush)
    Backwater's Gun Powder 'N' Lead "Trigger" BLF 6/30/12 ( FC AFC CJ's Mister T x FC Queen Winhelmina of the Netherlands)
    Backwater's Biker Trash "Scooter" BLM 9/6/2013 (FC AFC Nick of Time Lone Ranger x Good Ideas Windy Retreezer QAA)

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backwater View Post
    So the experts here on RTF equate a cheese ball for a 12 weeks old pup, THE factor in their success? Also the question wasn't FC AFC is was NFC, just a little bit of a difference, but I could be wrong. I thought NFC was different then FC, maybe not.
    Not saying one should not praise their dogs, I sure do, have a box of biscuits in the truck all the time, but when it is business, there are no clickers, weenies, or taped episodes of "The View" on the truck.

    "Don't tell me about your friend who thinks choke collars, heeling sticks, and electronic collars are cruel and unnecessary, so he uses weenies. He probably doesn't hunt, or else he has a dog that doesn't share our passion for October and all the birds that go it it", (Lardy, 2013, p. 4).


    References
    Lardy, M. (2013). Basic Obediance. Training with Mike Lardy, 2, 4.
    My post stands!
    Last edited by Criquetpas; 02-03-2014 at 12:40 PM.
    Earl Dillow

  6. #36
    Senior Member shawninthesticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backwater View Post
    So the experts here on RTF equate a cheese ball for a 12 weeks old pup, THE factor in their success? Also the question wasn't FC AFC is was NFC, just a little bit of a difference, but I could be wrong. I thought NFC was different then FC, maybe not.
    Not saying one should not praise their dogs, I sure do, have a box of biscuits in the truck all the time, but when it is business, there are no clickers, weenies, or taped episodes of "The View" on the truck.

    "Don't tell me about your friend who thinks choke collars, heeling sticks, and electronic collars are cruel and unnecessary, so he uses weenies. He probably doesn't hunt, or else he has a dog that doesn't share our passion for October and all the birds that go it it", (Lardy, 2013, p. 4).


    References
    Lardy, M. (2013). Basic Obediance. Training with Mike Lardy, 2, 4.
    Just exactly when is it "business " with a 12 week old pup?
    Shawn White

    HR Big Creek Retrievers Independence Day JH QAA "Indy "

  7. #37
    Senior Member JusticeDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Criquetpas View Post
    My post stands!
    Just ignore Backwater. He's purchased some well bred dogs, but hasn't learned the head from the tail yet, Earl. Just buying them doesn't cut it. And, he doesn't understand the differences between a weekend trial and a national and how they are judged. So be it. Don't waste your time or your breath.

    Let's get back to "the day the music died."
    Susan

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  8. #38
    Senior Member JusticeDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Robinson View Post
    Wow, way to mischaracterize Lardy. I don't expect he ever used a clicker though he might treat train little puppies, but Lardy was one of the first to make it generally acceptable to teach first, correct later and give the dog the benefit of doubt when you're not sure. That may have been a direct quote, but taken out of context. Lardy leans on the softer side compared to many old school trainers.
    John is exactly correct. Mike and Andy made their claim to fame by taking soft mealy bitches and getting them to run hard and make field champions out of them. I can tell you, that just before Andy Attar went to line in the 4th series of an open, with Honor, to achieve his first open win, he fed him part of his sandwich!
    Susan

    FC Tribute to Justice, JH "Honor"
    FC AFC Contempt of Court "Ruckus"
    Medal Of Honor, QAA "Valor"
    HRCH Kirby's High Sierra, SH, QAA "Kirby"
    HRCH Niki Snowbird, SH, QAA "Niki"
    Southland Order In the Court, QAA "Gavel" July 17, 2002- March 24, 2013
    Southland Rusty Nail - derby points, qual placements "Rusty"
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  9. #39
    Senior Member JusticeDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KwickLabs View Post
    When training alone, I have had a few dogs that seem to think looking back at me (as the trainer) is expected.

    You have a bit of a different situation Jim .. if you train alone quite a bit. The dogs have learned that YOU are the one who starts the ball rolling, and they are anxious for you to do that. I've really never had this happen with a balance of group vs. solo training. They know where the action is coming from ie: the sky, the field, etc. and that is where their focus will be, even if you taught them initial eye contact as a puppy. They learn to transfer their skill sets.
    Susan

    FC Tribute to Justice, JH "Honor"
    FC AFC Contempt of Court "Ruckus"
    Medal Of Honor, QAA "Valor"
    HRCH Kirby's High Sierra, SH, QAA "Kirby"
    HRCH Niki Snowbird, SH, QAA "Niki"
    Southland Order In the Court, QAA "Gavel" July 17, 2002- March 24, 2013
    Southland Rusty Nail - derby points, qual placements "Rusty"
    www.justiceretrievers.com

  10. #40
    Senior Member cakaiser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JusticeDog View Post
    John is exactly correct. Mike and Andy made their claim to fame by taking soft mealy bitches and getting them to run hard and make field champions out of them. I can tell you, that just before Andy Attar went to line in the 4th series of an open, with Honor, to achieve his first open win, he fed him part of his sandwich!
    Oh yeah, and I know a trainer, that told Dick, to use a squeeky toy to get dog's attention. Course, this trainer likely doesn't live up to Mr. Backwater's high standards....
    He has won just 1 national open.
    LOL
    Charlotte Kaiser: " The Problem Lies In The Talent."

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