Question about timing training
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Thread: Question about timing training

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013

    Default Question about timing training

    So I've had my started (JH) dog now about a month. When I started working with him I tried to develop a routine after work to do the yard work. Well it was easy to quickly see that he loathed training. He also seemed to show negative response to the ecollar. Almost shutting down and regressing in training. So I came home from work one day and he was fired up. So I thought I might cash in on this attentive motivation, leave the ecollar indoors and just focus on verbal and physical,praise. Well when we hit the yard he was enthusiastic and quickly went through the drills that had frustrated me only the day before...and did it with vigor. It was like he knew exactly what I wanted because his body posture and tone indicated he was anticipating a command I was about to give. Literally the tale of two dogs...
    So anyways I've been taking advantage of it Were having fun together but I'm not experienced enough to know if I may actually be conditioning him in a way that will be detrimental in the future
    also I read about half of a book called "What the dogs taught me". In it the author talk about using kibble or teats as a reward for his upland game dogs. Is this a good or bad idea.
    thanks again

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Bill Stoune's Avatar
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    Jul 2011


    I'm not sure exactly what you are asking here. I will tell you positive response is generally a good thing. How old is your dog and what training did he have before you got him?

  4. #3
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    Jul 2010
    Watford, ONT


    Keep the collar on. but appropriate use of the collar would be better. Sounds like a pressure issue not dislike. Balance out your drill work with marks. Lighten up on the drill work! Make it fun which it sounds like you are trying to do. JMHO Good luck
    HRCH Scaupgetters Tarnation QAA
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  6. #4
    Senior Member Mike Tome's Avatar
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    Jul 2004
    Brunswick, MD


    You don't say how you are using the collar or what training program, if any, that you are following. If you are frequently giving corrections in a "nagging" way, then I could see how it might wear your dog's enthusiasm down. The frequency and timing of corrections is crucial to a training regime....

    ....and yes, you are creating an issue by not having the collar on during training. Your dog has learned that if he sulks while wearing the collar it may come off. He has shown you that he learned what you were teaching so far by responding w/o the collar, but now, when it comes time to do something new, it may be a tougher row to hoe, so to speak.

    If you haven't done so already, get one of the established training programs, hook up with a club or a pro, and learn how to use the collar. A dog should not sulk when the collar is own. When I get the collar out my dog knows that its time for training or hunting and its going to be fun. Loathing is the furthest thing from his mind....

    Good luck!
    Mike Tome
    Duckdog's Fast Autofocus
    GMHRCH-III WR North Star's Deuce of Diamonds

    MHR WR Pondview's Bar None 1994-2006

  7. #5
    Senior Member
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    Nov 2004
    New Haven, CT


    Leave the collar on but leave the transmitter in the truck or house. Now without the transmitter you must use your brains and teach. Drills are teaching and if he fails break it down so he learns and break it down so his confidence is being built. Without the transmitter the burden is on you. Develop good work ethics from dog by making drills a confidence builder besides a skill builder. This is just my opinion have never produced a FC or AFC can only dream. And I could be wrong. It's your job as trainer to figure it out.
    Gentle in what you do. Firm in how you do it.

    WESTWIND WHISPERING COVE JAY ** ( Larry's son and Murray's grandson)

  8. #6
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Jan 2003
    Kansas City, MO


    So, this is a "started dog" that works at a JH level that you recently bought, and that was trained earlier by someone else? And they did, or did not tell you exactly what training had been done and how?

    "Prepare your dog in such a manner that the work he is normally called upon to do under-whelms him, not overwhelms him." ~ Evan Graham

    “People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”

    ― George Bernard Shaw

    The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)

  9. #7
    Member GRun's Avatar
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    Oct 2013
    Saratoga County, NY


    I think your first instincts were correct. A young "started" dog that has a poor training attitude is a problem, and one you should discuss with the person that should him to you. Sound like the only program this dog needs is a puppy program.

    There are a lot of unknowns, but if this were my dog, I would take the collar off, and make training as fun as possible. High energy exiting marks should be the dogs main work mixed in with OB, on a lead and slip collar. Much like a puppy. You want to make sure he knows he is still under control. I would not re-introduce the collar until he associates his new place, owner, training routine with energetic fun, and as all but forgotten his old routine.

    Once you are at this point, and it may take weeks or more, slowly re-introducing the collar, by putting it on and off the dog frequently, but not related to training. Then slowly have him wear it during training, but do not use it until he his attitude and intensity remain where they should be. I would re-start collar use at the lowest levels he can feel with simple CCing of basic OB commands. From here the tricky parts begin. But at least you might have some good energy and attitude to work with.

    Post more info. Many here could be a big help with this one.

  10. #8
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Feb 2005
    NW WI


    Bluemax, this is one of your earlier posts on another thread you started about whistle sit:

    "I have a 3 y/o chocolate male. He was taken to JH by a pro. I was able to contact her and she said his next step would be to work on his sit on the whistle to prep him for casting. She remembered my dog very well even though it had been nearly a year since she had him. She recommended the ecollar because he responded well to it while under her direction. She even gave me some recommendations on precisely how to use it. She said work with him till he has sit with one toot on the whistle down cold. So I did that and he has it. She then said once he has that then give him a toot to sit. After he sits walk out about 15feet or so and give him 2 toots to come then when he's enroute give him one toot to sit. Then keep working this until he has it and you have his full attention while sitting. So I did that and he performs great on all things until I give him the toot enroute to stop him. He just won't stop. Even with ecollar stimulation. I'll nick then blow and he just keeps a comin (rather quickly) all the way to heel.
    Ive tried to shorten and lengthen the distance. I've also raised the stimulation level as well, but he is determined to get back to heel."

    Your problem is not the ecollar, it is your use of it. I, as have others already, strongly urge and encourage you to either get with a pro and/or get with a regular training program and start going through basics in a regular, step by step manner. Your dog is confused, rightly so, you aren't being fair in your training, by what you have posted. You are confused, you don't understand the basics, not sure how you expect your dog to understand. There is no other way to say it, you can take it as being mean to a noob, but, from your previous threads, you and your dog need help formulating a systematic approach to training, with or without an ecollar.
    Kim Pfister, Rainmaker Labs

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