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Thread: Question on AKC Hunt Test - Apprentice Judging

  1. #1
    Senior Member Hambone's Avatar
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    Default Question on AKC Hunt Test - Apprentice Judging

    I took the plunge and completed my judge's seminar and now have a question on apprentice judging. Our local club is holding a HT in April and they will have a Sr. and Jr. on different days so I could apprentice both in one weekend if the judges are willing. I can't see anything in the AKC rules that would prohibit apprenticing for both in the same weekend. I know I can't judge Sr. till I've done at least two Jr. but don't see anything that says I cannot apprentice both in a weekend. Anybody know if I am missing something or is this permissible?
    I think they were all made to shoot because if they were not why did they give them that whirr of wings that moves you suddenly more than any love of country . . . I think that they were made to shoot and some of us were made to shoot them and if that is not so well, never say we did not tell you that we liked it.

    E. Hemingway

  2. #2
    Senior Member Willie Alderson's Avatar
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    I think with the rule change, you need to apprentice a junior stake first. I'm not positive but I think you need a certain amount of points at the junior level before you can apprentice Senior. Then you need a certain number of points at the Senior level before you can apprentice Master...

    I attended a seminar last spring and there were some frustrated people out there with the rule change. Pretty time consuming if you're new and want to judge at the Master level. Might take a few years, but I understand their point of view needing qualified judges who know what they are doing.
    ~Willie Alderson

    "Drake" Willey's Drake Seeker Supreme MH

    "Roxi" Alder Creeks Riparian Roxi

  3. #3
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    There is nothing in the rules that says you can't get the apprenticeships out of the way before judging, you just can't judge until you've completed the required apprenticeships/judging requirements at the previous levels. However, the apprentice does need to be available for the setup discussions, which may happen the day before the test, so if you're apprenticing JH on Sat for example and that runs all day, would you be available to the SH judges for Sunday should they need you on Saturday? It may or may not work out timing-wise, just depends on the size of your HT, doesn't hurt to ask the committee. Kudos to you for doing it.

    "Prior to Becoming an Approved Judge. For new
    judges after January 1, 2012:
    (1) Seminar: Attend an AKC Retriever Hunting Test
    seminar. This first seminar allows an individual to judge
    for three years assuming the apprenticeship requirement
    is met.
    (2) Apprenticeship: Individuals that have not judged
    prior to January 1, 2012 must successfully apprentice at
    least once at the level being judged. (Club’s responsibility
    to monitor.)
    Prior to Becoming Eligible to Judge the Senior/
    Master Test. Individuals that have not judged Senior
    or Master tests prior to January 1, 2012 must first have
    judged at least twice at the testing level immediately
    below before they are eligible to judge a Senior or Master
    tests. (Club’s responsibility to monitor.)"

    And,
    "Judges shall involve the Apprentice Judge in the setting
    up of the Hunting Test, and shall instruct them in all
    aspects of judging Hunting Tests. However, Apprentice
    Judges shall not advise handlers, signal for birds, take
    birds from handlers or otherwise be involved in the
    mechanics of the Hunting Test.
    Apprentice Judges must be available and on the grounds
    for the entire time the test level they are apprenticing is in
    progress, including setup time, through the completion of
    the tests, tallying of scores and discussion by the judges of
    those dogs that are to qualify. As with the assigned Judges,
    the Apprentice Judge may not serve either on the Event
    Committee or as the Event Secretary. Apprentice Judges
    are subject to the same restrictions as the approved judges
    (see Chapter 1, Section 6). There shall be no more than one
    apprentice judge assigned to any one set of approved judges
    at any test level or division of a test level."
    Kim Pfister, Rainmaker Labs

  4. #4
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    There is no rule that says that you cannot apprentice a senior stake prior to judging a Junior stake (or even apprenticing Senior before apprenticing Junior).

    The only rule that is out there is that you must judge 2 junior before judging senior (and need 2 senior before judging master). And yes, you need to apprentice at each level prior to judging that level, but there is no rule outlining the process of when those apprenticeships occur.

  5. #5
    Senior Member jacduck's Avatar
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    Best plan, get an apprenticeship in JR/SR on the same weekend with the best judge team you can find. Then be prepared to beg, borrow and steal to get those 1st two JRs out of the way so you can judge JR/SR together on a weekend and cost the host club less in any travel expense, lodging etc. Then be prepared to be skewered by some of you best friends about the tests you mess up.
    John C aka jacduck


    "Duck hunter's minds are like concrete. All mixed up and permanently set."

  6. #6
    Senior Member pat addis's Avatar
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    the joys of being a judge, makes you wonder why judge at all

  7. #7
    Senior Member HNTFSH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pat addis View Post
    the joys of being a judge, makes you wonder why judge at all
    No Kidding!
    We shoot dogs with a Canon

  8. #8
    Senior Member Hambone's Avatar
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    Well, I've always avoided judging cause being an administrator I put up with people problems all week so I prefer to avoid them on weekends. But I've been doing this for many years now and felt I should give back to the sport a little. Plus I've always been told you learn a lot by judging and I can see how that would be true. AKC hasn't made it easy with all the new requirements. It means a substantial commitment of time to work up to Master now.
    I think they were all made to shoot because if they were not why did they give them that whirr of wings that moves you suddenly more than any love of country . . . I think that they were made to shoot and some of us were made to shoot them and if that is not so well, never say we did not tell you that we liked it.

    E. Hemingway

  9. #9
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    Might be OK. Might not be. The problem is the apprentice judge needs to be present for all set-ups, etc.
    If you are (apprentice) judging all day on say Saturday, then you might not be present for set-ups for the Sunday stake.

    John

  10. #10
    Senior Member Scott Shafer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hambone View Post
    I took the plunge and completed my judge's seminar and now have a question on apprentice judging. Our local club is holding a HT in April and they will have a Sr. and Jr. on different days so I could apprentice both in one weekend if the judges are willing. I can't see anything in the AKC rules that would prohibit apprenticing for both in the same weekend. I know I can't judge Sr. till I've done at least two Jr. but don't see anything that says I cannot apprentice both in a weekend. Anybody know if I am missing something or is this permissible?
    short answer yes u can.. good luck to u

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