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Thread: Measuring Degrees of Difficulty when Training

  1. #1
    Junior Member ForceFetch's Avatar
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    Default Measuring Degrees of Difficulty when Training

    A lot of equipment goes along with training retrievers for the field. If one is not careful it can be quite an expensive endeavor, we all love the latest and greatest gadgets. Most new products developed for dog training are useful while others are just that, gadgets that may not serve their purpose for long. In any case it is always good to go back to the basics and review a weakness of your retrievers. Before the world became so “high tech” the professionals of the past used to make champions without two-way radios, a four wheeler, electronic throwers, or the electronic collar. Hard to imagine in the world we live in today, but its true. The professionals and amateurs back in the day used to walk out to the dog to make a correction, gave a hand signal to their thrower, and often relied on the use of ropes to teach a skill.

    With the ease of the electronic collar it has a tendency to be over used. At Bay Blue Kennels we try and put ourselves in the dog’s shoes. Basic training and collar conditioning can become a drawn out process for some retrievers. As an effort to keep all things in balance it is a good practice to take a break from the use of the electronic collar. During a young retriever’s basics training we are throwing so much information at them in a short period of time. At this period in your retrievers life they learn how to respond to all forms of pressure including the electronic collar. In order to challenge ones self for improvement in they way you read a retriever, react to their behavior, or teach a lesson do it for a day without the use of the electronic collar. By all means still make corrections and intervene in the retrievers actions as needed, but challenge your mind to find other ways to correct, teach, or practice your lessons. Your retrievers attitude toward training will benefit. Without the influence of the electronic collar your retriever may show other tendencies not noticed in training before. A look at the raw dog. Taking a day off from the use of the electronic collar will offer an alternative perspective about your retriever and their training habits.

    Happy Training!

  2. #2
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    I have had great training days with a dead battery from a collar left in the truck for too long.
    BUT
    Ol' Rover still had the dead collar on his neck. Just as he did for weeks before he was ever conditioned. It means time to go to work. a great way to make a collar wise dog is to have it on sometime and not on sometime. even if you do not plan to use it, put it on the dog.


    BTW Blue Bay, welcome to the RTF. I see it's your first post. Shall we call you Blue?
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    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    A good solid well thought out training program will prohibit the need to "take a few days off from the collar."

    /Paul
    Paul Cantrell
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    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Hmm JMO training a collar conditioned dog without a collar, is playing not training. If something goes wrong you have no recourse to correct it. The purpose of training is to instill good habits and maintain them. Running a dog without a collar, you might as well be testing or frolicking in the field. Now I will agree sometimes dogs, and handlers need to frolic in fields. But setting up a training session, that has specific rules on what dogs should and shouldn't do. Then expecting a dog to behave correctly; and having no options to ensure that correct behavior. Is loosing an opportunity to actually teach a dog, and an opportunity for them to learn something (aka train). It could in fact be instilling bad habits, that will have to be untrained later. One might be better simply taking a day off, to play and not train.
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 02-03-2014 at 01:33 PM.
    "They's Just DAWGS"
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    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Bora View Post
    ...BTW Blue Bay, welcome to the RTF. I see it's your first post. Shall we call you Blue?
    I'm pretty sure that it's Tera Lanczak.
    Considering the fact that God limited the intelligence of man, it seems unfair that he did not also limit his stupidity". -Unknown

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    Senior Member duk4me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copterdoc View Post
    I'm pretty sure that it's Tera Lanczak.
    The Tera Lanczak?
    I have learned I need these dogs much more than they need me. Tim Bockmon

  7. #7
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt'EmUp View Post
    Hmm JMO training a collar conditioned dog without a collar, is playing not training. If something goes wrong you have no recourse to correct it. The purpose of training is to instill good habits and maintain them. Running a dog without a collar, you might as well be testing or frolicking in the field. Now I will agree sometimes dogs, and handlers need to frolic in fields. But setting up a training session, that has specific rules on what dogs should and shouldn't do. Then expecting a dog to behave correctly; and having no options to ensure that correct behavior. Is loosing an opportunity to actually teach a dog, and an opportunity for them to learn something (aka train). It could in fact be instilling bad habits, that will have to be untrained later. One might be better simply taking a day off, to play and not train.

    I read the OP a couple times. I didn't see any mention of running a dog without a collar. I think you can run a dog with a collar on without pushing a button.
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

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    Senior Member waycool's Avatar
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    I think Buzz is correct... As I happened read her blog earlier today and agree with the thought that... there actually used be dog training before the e-collar's existed... and its OK to use those "manual" methods at times.. I certainly don't believe she said .. don't put the collar on..only that sometimes it's good for dog and trainer not to push the button.. You know.. go old school.. fwiw I don't know "jack" (Duck Dynasty?) about retrievers.. so take my posts with a grain of salt.. (flaming has no effect)
    Steve Lithgow
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForceFetch View Post
    In order to challenge ones self for improvement in they way you read a retriever, react to their behavior, or teach a lesson do it for a day without the use of the electronic collar. .
    Hmm I Might've misinterpreted; I guess I could further specify; as we've all ran a dog on a day when the collar was out of juice; and wondered why our corrections weren't working. I believe I've been known to cuss a lot, and plunge into ponds on such days. Heck I used to plunge into ponds, throw things and take quite a few walks, offering dogs many poorly timed corrections, and a bunch of confusion; before I had a collar. I'm pretty sure this is the reason I bought one (I just can't see progressing backwards, for theoretical "self improvement") I've got too many things to get done; but too each their own.
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 02-03-2014 at 02:49 PM.
    "They's Just DAWGS"
    "Hunting is a skill to be learned whether you do it early or late it still needs to be learned"
    "I train dogs, Not papers"

    GMRH HRCH Quick MH (most importantly Duck/Upland Enthusiast)
    MHR HRCH Lakota MH (most importantly Upland/Duck Enthusiast)
    SHR Storm.. the Pup (Beginning Upland & Waterfowl Enthusiast)

  10. #10
    Junior Member GRun's Avatar
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    I like it. With the dog wearing the collar, but turned off. Seems like an approach to improve the trainer. Requires set-ups designed for success, more teaching, more attrition, less collar correction. And the trainer has to exercise more than the thumb.
    Jeff

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