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Thread: Settled Science!!!!!

  1. #21
    Senior Member IowaBayDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henlee View Post
    Had to write something so this would post.
    You should probably study up or take a class on International Economics. Tariffs only punish one group, CONSUMERS! Putting tariffs on Chinese/Indian goods would only drive the price up to the U.S. consumer. Even if there is a US competitive source for the product the US producer will also raise their price to be just cheaper than the foreign source with tariff's on it. But the majority of those products have no US competitive source so the tariff just gets passed on to the consumer. In the long run this may bring some manufacturing back to the US but it will be at the cost of paying much higher prices for all those things currently sourced in China/India.
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  2. #22
    Senior Member swampcollielover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IowaBayDog View Post
    You should probably study up or take a class on International Economics. Tariffs only punish one group, CONSUMERS! Putting tariffs on Chinese/Indian goods would only drive the price up to the U.S. consumer. Even if there is a US competitive source for the product the US producer will also raise their price to be just cheaper than the foreign source with tariff's on it. But the majority of those products have no US competitive source so the tariff just gets passed on to the consumer. In the long run this may bring some manufacturing back to the US but it will be at the cost of paying much higher prices for all those things currently sourced in China/India.
    Dan,
    Henlee would only have to take Micro Econ 101 to learn about supply and demand and the 'Invisible Hand'...

  3. #23
    Senior Member Socks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Prior to the dark ages people knew the earth was a sphere and it hung upon nothing.
    what made the dark ages dark was the covering up of the light. So generation after generation people began to believe really weird stuff. That's what happens in the absence of light.

    Men of old accomplished way more with way less. The technological calculations would be impossible these days without the use of all our fancy crap. They did it with a triangle, protracter and a straight edge. They sailed by the knowledge of the stars. They mapped out continents with amazing detail. we think we are so smart today. What we know today pales in comparison to what they knew back then. Scientist are still learning things that men of old knew about, In reality we are pretty pathetic creatures compared to those of thousands of years ago.
    Hell,,, we can't even produce a machine that can cut a stone as accurately as a an ancient man with a chisel and a fricken hammer and we can't set a corner stone any more precise.
    They knew stuff we don't
    Pete
    Hogwash. We now have steel that has a yield stress of 50,000 lbs per square inch and this is the basic strength used for structural members and is nothing special. We also have concrete that has a compressive strenght of 10,000 lbs per square inch. We have water jets that can cut stone, metal, and carbon fiber materials down to hundreths if not thousandths of an inch with minimal material loss. How many of those old timers used a cell phone or went up in a sky scraper or knew what a computer was? We have amazing tools and materials now a days.
    Joe Dickerson

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  4. #24
    Senior Member Henlee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IowaBayDog View Post
    You should probably study up or take a class on International Economics. Tariffs only punish one group, CONSUMERS! Putting tariffs on Chinese/Indian goods would only drive the price up to the U.S. consumer. Even if there is a US competitive source for the product the US producer will also raise their price to be just cheaper than the foreign source with tariff's on it. But the majority of those products have no US competitive source so the tariff just gets passed on to the consumer. In the long run this may bring some manufacturing back to the US but it will be at the cost of paying much higher prices for all those things currently sourced in China/India.
    The idea is not to not collect the tariff, but to get them to come into compliance with our laws. Remember the golden rule. he who has the gold makes the rules. We seem to lose forget that they need to sell to us, we only want to buy. If foreign manufactures refuse to come into compliance then we have the opportunity to add jobs here. Adding that many potential workers would offset the increase in costs in the long term. By that I mean that with larger amount of the population working there would be leverage to demand higher wages. I do not think though that foreign manufactures would give up such a large competitive advantage and in that way free market economics win again.
    During break time at obedience school, two dogs were talking.
    One said to the other..."The thing I hate about obedience school is you learn ALL this stuff you will never use in the real world."

  5. #25
    Senior Member Buck Mann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henlee View Post
    There is a vast consensus that global warning is real and man made. You are right their may never be a global warming law. What we do have is enough solid research to show that it much more likely to be true than not. You are not going to find me saying that research should not continue, but we have actionable information right now that is foolish to ignore.
    I was talking about this with a climatologist the other day. He is of the school that the earths temperatures are cyclic and that we are actually starting a cooling cycle. I asked him about all of the studies regarding global warming and human contribution to climate change. His point was that it is impossible to get funding or grant money for any study that isn't designed to support climate change. He had some very interesting points and the science is far from settled.

    Buck

  6. #26
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Henlee, I don't think there is much evidence of protective tariffs (even if the intention is different in this case) having much success historically. I believe that was one mechanism used by FDR during The Depression, and didn't help anyone. WW II removed those tariffs, of necessity.

    As for the Chinese govt, or Iran, or Venezuela, allowing the citizenry any real power to affect the international policy, it wouldn't seem likely. A few years ago a Chinese native here in the US told me that the Chinese people really like Americans ... but they are not real likely to express that publicly, for obvious reasons.

    Another aspect might be the world's need for the rare earth minerals that the Chinese are willing to produce, while other countries consider the mining process too dangerous. That has not made us stop buying rare earths. We need them. So, couldn't China just raise their prices on their rare earths to make up for any shortfall on the more mundane products that they don't sell to us?

    It would also be MANY products that would increase in cost for us since there are so many components of various products that are Chinese-sourced ... like chips needed for many of our electronics. When I bought my last computer (which has been a workhorse for about 6 years now), I learned that while many manufacturers advertise the Intel chip in their machines, most of the rest of the chips are Chinese-made. I purchased from a local company that "builds" their own machines from components, and they promote that all the chips in their machines are US-made.
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  7. #27
    Senior Member Henlee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    Henlee, I don't think there is much evidence of protective tariffs (even if the intention is different in this case) having much success historically. I believe that was one mechanism used by FDR during The Depression, and didn't help anyone. WW II removed those tariffs, of necessity.

    As for the Chinese govt, or Iran, or Venezuela, allowing the citizenry any real power to affect the international policy, it wouldn't seem likely. A few years ago a Chinese native here in the US told me that the Chinese people really like Americans ... but they are not real likely to express that publicly, for obvious reasons.

    Another aspect might be the world's need for the rare earth minerals that the Chinese are willing to produce, while other countries consider the mining process too dangerous. That has not made us stop buying rare earths. We need them. So, couldn't China just raise their prices on their rare earths to make up for any shortfall on the more mundane products that they don't sell to us?

    It would also be MANY products that would increase in cost for us since there are so many components of various products that are Chinese-sourced ... like chips needed for many of our electronics. When I bought my last computer (which has been a workhorse for about 6 years now), I learned that while many manufacturers advertise the Intel chip in their machines, most of the rest of the chips are Chinese-made. I purchased from a local company that "builds" their own machines from components, and they promote that all the chips in their machines are US-made.
    I am starting to see why politicians won't talk about the details of their plans. I am suggesting for any problem that is put forth their are reasonable steps that can be taken around them.

    China is already charging the maximum price they can for their commodities. If their demand slipped due to US regulation then that price would go down rather than up. If they decided to hold their metals than prices would go up, but they would not have cash that they need.

    All this is short term disruptions while the market adjusts. These can all be phased in also to not have a dramatic swing in the economy. There are solutions, the important thing to decide is to do it.
    During break time at obedience school, two dogs were talking.
    One said to the other..."The thing I hate about obedience school is you learn ALL this stuff you will never use in the real world."

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