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Thread: Talk about Ideological Idiocy

  1. #1
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Default Talk about Ideological Idiocy

    Talk about government interference in the internal operations of a private company. These rubes would rather see these jobs go to Mexico than allow the company to operate in the way the wish. When I was at Siemens I was REQUIRED to be away from my desk and in the shop AT LEAST 2 hours per day. I had no specific responsibility in the shop. My job was to redesign old product lines and introduce new ones. Management wanted me watching the product get built. The wanted me talking to employees about their assembly and material handling difficulties, getting input on where they thought the biggest waste items were, what they thought was dumb about current work processes, and where they thought the products could be improved. That is how many German companies operate. These freak'in politicians who don't know the first flying fig about running a manufacturing company should just get the hell out of the way and let them do things the way the want to...




    The crusade by anti-union forces in Tennessee, including the state’s governor and senior senator, is as much a fight with Volkswagen management as with the UAW.Not only are Republican legislators accusing Volkswagen of backing the UAW, some of their leaders on Monday threatened to withhold tax incentives for future expansion of the three-year-old assembly plant in Chattanooga if workers vote this week to join the UAW.

    About 1,500 workers will vote from Wednesday through Friday in an election that the National Labor Relations Board will conduct.
    The company plans to expand in Chattanooga or at a Mexican plant to produce a midsize SUV. Overall, Volkswagen intends to invest about $7 billion in North America over the next five years to achieve a goal of selling more than 1 million Volkswagen and Audi vehicles in the U.S. by 2018.

    “It has been widely reported that Volkswagen has promoted a campaign that has been unfair, unbalanced and, quite frankly, un-American in the traditions of American labor campaigns,” State Sen. Bo Watson, R-Chattanooga, said in a statement sent to the Free Press. “Should the workers choose to be represented by the United Auto Workers, then I believe additional incentives for expansion will have a very tough time passing the Tennessee Senate.”

    After an organizing campaign that began about two years ago, this week’s vote is the UAW’s best opportunity to win support at a foreign-owned assembly plant since Honda began building cars in Ohio more than 30 years ago. More than a half-dozen organizing efforts at Japanese factories in the U.S. have failed.
    Volkswagen has tried to remain neutral, but the recent actions by Tennessee Gov. Bill Haslam, U.S. Sen. Bob Corker and prominent anti-tax lobbyist Grover Norquist led the automaker’s management to issue a statement over the weekend that “outside political groups won't divert us from the work at hand: innovating, creating jobs, growing and producing great automobiles.”

    Norquist and a group called Center for Worker Freedom have rented about a dozen digital billboards in the Chattanooga area trumpeting anti-union messages. One shows an image of the long-abandoned Packard ruins with the message: Detroit: Brought to You by the UAW.

    The company has allowed anti-union groups into the plant to talk to workers and distribute printed material.

    David Smith, a spokesman for Haslam, said the governor believes it will become more difficult for Tennessee to recruit new manufacturers to the state if the Volkswagen workers are represented by the UAW.

    “Any discussions of incentives are part of additional and continued talks with VW, which we look forward to,” Smith said.
    A group called Southern Momentum echoed that position in a statement on Monday.

    “Further financial incentives — which are absolutely necessary for the expansion of the VW facility — simply will not exist if the UAW wins this election,” said Maury Nicely, a Chattanooga, Tenn., labor lawyer opposed to VW’s cooperation with the union.

    Democratic legislators, who are a minority in both chambers of the Tennessee General Assembly, defended Volkswagen’s prerogative to manage the plant as it chooses.
    “In my 20 years on the hill, I’ve never seen such a massive intrusion into the affairs of a private company,” said Tennessee Rep. Craig Fitzhugh, D-Ripley.
    Martin Winterkorn, Volkswagen’s global CEO, said last month the midsize SUV will go on sale in 2016 and the Chattanooga plant is under consideration for the investment. Volkswagen also has a plant in Puebla, Mexico.

    If workers at the Volkswagen plant in Tennessee vote for UAW representation, the union and company will form a German-style works council. The council is a structure Volkswagen uses at most of its assembly plants around the world.

    Volkswagen says that the UAW has agreed to delegate to the works council many of the functions and responsibilities ordinarily performed by unions.

    “Volkswagen considers their works councils their strategic competitive advantage,” said Arthur Wheaton, a professor at Cornell University’s School of Industrial and Labor Relations.
    “U.S. labor law does not allow them to have a works council without a labor union.”

    Wheaton said Volkswagen would prefer to build the SUV in the U.S. because it has the space in Chattanooga and because it would keep transportation costs down.

    “Our works councils are key to our success and productivity. It is abusiness model that helped to make Volkswagen the second-largest car company in the world,” Frank Fischer, chairman and CEO of Volkswagen Chattanooga, said in a statement.

    Last edited by Buzz; 02-10-2014 at 07:07 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    Talk about government interference in the internal operations of a private company. These rubes would rather see these jobs go to Mexico than allow the company to operate in the way the wish. When I was at Siemens I was REQUIRED to be away from my desk and in the shop AT LEAST 2 hours per day. I had no specific responsibility in the shop. My job was to redesign old product lines and introduce new ones. Management wanted me watching the product get built. The wanted me talking to employees about their assembly and material handling difficulties, getting input on where they thought the biggest waste items were, what they thought was dumb about current work processes, and where they thought the products could be improved. That is how many German companies operate. These freak'in politicians who don't know the first flying fig about running a manufacturing company should just get the hell out of the way and let them do things the way the want to...
    Talk about "rubes", these freaking polititians who passed a law REQUIRING a union in order to have a works council. WHO WERE THESE RUBES that also created the NLRB, minimum wage, failure to negotiate in good faith????? Talk about government in the internal operations of a private company. While we are at it, how about the community organizer president who has unilaterally decided that NO PRIVATE COMPANY MAY HAVE A CONTRACT WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT UNLESS IT PAYS HIGHER THAN THE MINIMUM WAGE? You want to talk about government interference, talk about these things.

    I guess you believe government interference is ok as long as you agree with it.

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    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caryalsobrook View Post
    Talk about "rubes", these freaking polititians who passed a law REQUIRING a union in order to have a works council. WHO WERE THESE RUBES that also created the NLRB, minimum wage, failure to negotiate in good faith????? Talk about government in the internal operations of a private company. While we are at it, how about the community organizer president who has unilaterally decided that NO PRIVATE COMPANY MAY HAVE A CONTRACT WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT UNLESS IT PAYS HIGHER THAN THE MINIMUM WAGE? You want to talk about government interference, talk about these things.

    I guess you believe government interference is ok as long as you agree with it.

    In my mind, there is a huge difference between setting minimum standards and telling a company that they can't conduct labor relations in the LEGAL manner that they wish to. I hope VW tells them to stick it and expands their operations in Mexico. That'll sure as heck be something to run on in the next election!

    These might not be traditional unions, so labor may be wary – but they can go hand-in-hand. Legally, to bring a works council to a workplace in the U.S., workers would likely have to unionize as well, because otherwise they could be seen as management unions, something that is against labor law. And for businesses to really experience the benefits of works councils, they may need unions too. That study of high-performance practices found that they only work with unions.
    A key section of labor law, section 8(a)(2) of the National Labor Relations Act, prohibits company unions. The law was written in the 1930s, when many big US corporations tried to organize unions for their workers, in order to prevent workers from organizing independent unions of their own. Labor law was intended to outlaw company unions like the Colorado Industrial Plan, organized by John D. Rockefeller in his Ludlow coalmines, just weeks after the infamous "Ludlow massacre" of the wives and children of striking miners. He announced at the time that "until labor and capital join hands and recognize their interest is a common interest ... there can be no progress."
    [O]nly representatives who are not subservient to the employerwith whom they deal can act freely in the interest of employees . . . .
    For these reasons, the very first step toward genuine collective
    bargaining is the abolition of the employer-dominated union as an
    agency for dealing with grievances, labor disputes, wages, rules or

    hours of employment.12


    Makes sense to me...
    Last edited by Buzz; 02-10-2014 at 08:19 PM.
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    Talk about government interference in the internal operations of a private company. These rubes would rather see these jobs go to Mexico than allow the company to operate in the way the wish. When I was at Siemens I was REQUIRED to be away from my desk and in the shop AT LEAST 2 hours per day. I had no specific responsibility in the shop. My job was to redesign old product lines and introduce new ones. Management wanted me watching the product get built. The wanted me talking to employees about their assembly and material handling difficulties, getting input on where they thought the biggest waste items were, what they thought was dumb about current work processes, and where they thought the products could be improved. That is how many German companies operate. These freak'in politicians who don't know the first flying fig about running a manufacturing company should just get the hell out of the way and let them do things the way the want to...

    I know I'm the last person you want agreeing with you right now,,,,LOL,,,but yes I agree wholeheartedly
    Pete
    John 5 :30
    I can of my own self do nothing ,as I hear , I judge,,and my judgement is just, because I seek not my own will,,but the will of the father which hath sent me
    John 7:16 -- Jesus answered them and said my doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
    mark 16:9 -- So then after the lord had spoken unto them,he was received up in heaven, and sat on the right hand of God
    I Tim. 2:5 --For there is one God and one mediator between God and man ,, the man Christ Jesus

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    Buzz, you're starting to sound a little conservative... Makes sense to me.
    Bill Davis

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    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntinman View Post
    Buzz, you're starting to sound a little conservative... Makes sense to me.

    I think that American management AND labor could learn a lot from this cooperative model. When we rolled out new product lines, we never had a problem with labor buy in. There was no pissing and moaning about how engineering did this, or management did that, or purchasing did the other. Everyone's point of view was aired before hand. If anything labor busted their arses because they felt invested. If their suggestions didn't work out, they failed too. I think you'll agree that the opportunity for failure can be a great motivator...
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    I think that American management AND labor could learn a lot from this cooperative model. When we rolled out new product lines, we never had a problem with labor buy in. There was no pissing and moaning about how engineering did this, or management did that, or purchasing did the other. Everyone's point of view was aired before hand. If anything labor busted their arses because they felt invested. If their suggestions didn't work out, they failed too. I think you'll agree that the opportunity for failure can be a great motivator...
    I ask myself - Would Buzz be as irate about this stupidity were the perpetrators Democrat idealogues? TBS, there are a lot of managements that could learn a little wandering around the shop floor. Over the years I've spent a lot of time on the floor & used to be very specific with my young engineers about getting a shop buyin when doing repairs. A lot of people have preconceived notions based on whatever concept they have bought into. I'm sure Siemens is a good company, they are not the only one. I've worked for & consulted at a lot of big company's with very differing management models. The successful in Manufacturing involve those from the shop floor somewhere in their process. There is no magic way, if there were we could all read a book on management & know how, it just doesn't work that way.
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    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin S View Post
    There is no magic way, if there were we could all read a book on management & know how, it just doesn't work that way.

    That's what makes these clowns trying to tell them how to go about their business so ridiculous.
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    In my mind, there is a huge difference between setting minimum standards and telling a company that they can't conduct labor relations in the LEGAL manner that they wish to. I hope VW tells them to stick it and expands their operations in Mexico. That'll sure as heck be something to run on in the next election!







    Makes sense to me...
    Like I said, government interference is fine with you so long as you agree with it. Your standards are not mine so why should one company's have to follow the same standards as yours if I disagree? Furthermore, Tennessee is not STOPPING unionization of the plany, IT JUST IS NOT SPONCEERING IT!. Get RID of the law forbidding the work councils and then there would be no problem. Tennessee does not prevent any company from having aunion, it just does not encourage it. So if VW unionizes, the state sill not stop it.

    There IS NO LAW preventing a union in Tennessee. However there is no law encouraging one either. Ther federal government has seen to that end and even to a greater exten created the NLRB. Talk about interfering with a company, HOW ABOUT BOEING?? buzz, hypocritical you are I believe. There is no justification to outlaw a works council JUST BECAUSE THE COMPANY HAS NO UNION. That is the total stupidity and actually union promotion for union's sake only. Tennessee would prefer to avoid the creation of future new Detroits.

    PS
    By the way buzz, is it really a law that a company cannot have a works council without a union or is it just a rule created by the NLRB? Just curious.
    Last edited by caryalsobrook; 02-11-2014 at 05:03 AM.

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    Let’s begin with what really killed Detroit! Inflation and a very weak Yen!!!!!!!! Why did we have inflation in the late seventies and eighties.......bad monetary policy. Detroit had to use lessor quality materials to manufacture its cars. Japan on the other hand could sell a car in America for 1/3 less the cost, because of this bad monetary policy and free trade with Japan. And the American public felt slighted by American auto companies, so for years all you heard was how much better Japanese cars were compared to Ford, GM and Chrysler and that was true but not because they wanted it so. So in an effort to make better cars with high material cost and less market share, the US auto plants move much of their manufacturing to Mexico where wages are much lower than our minimum wage. But trust had been lost by the consumer and it has taken until this decade for that trust to be regained. However, the silver-lining is we have some really well made American cars now, but getting here bankrupted the auto industry in America.
    Now these politicians that oppose collective barging want you to believe that union wages is what killed Detroit and it is a big- big-fu#$ing lie! But from that bad government policy that resulted from tax payers not wanting to pay for the war in Vietnam and the printing of money to pay for it, the auto industry in America was damaged almost beyond repair. Now like all politicians, no accountability for the damage they caused and let’s blame it on someone else....and the easy target was the working man and the unions that represent him. So the unions got smeared with the same lack of trust as the US automotive industry did...and the consumer blamed them!!!
    Now let turn this to our advantage, lets bust the unions and how better to do that than play the blame game for all the ills in America when the pain that folks were experiencing was the pain of deflation, and let have a new hero Ronald Regan and the republicans. Now let’s not forget how he eased the pain, fiscal spending with borrowed money. Now what happened next is interest finally went down and companies began to spend and Clinton looked like a hero as the economy roared. But then came 911 and industry saw another opportunity….war and the spending continued and because of the prosperity of the nineties money was easy and higher wages came not from the employer but from the appreciation of the house and the ability to borrow equity at low interest rates.
    Now who caught the blame for the bad before was the unions and remember how good that worked. I hope Americans can see that they have been sold a pile of goods and realize that as a whole they are better than one as opposed to the boot-strap bull sh%t they have been being fed!!!!

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