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Thread: Talk about Ideological Idiocy

  1. #51
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caryalsobrook View Post
    The late 70's and 80"s caused Detroit's problems eh? The SAME TIME Nisson was building a HUGE auto plant in Tennessee that is still today quite successful. I guess for YOU that makes sense.

    PS I like your language. It gets more attention than your logic. In fact as it should.
    Nissan builds cars in DETROIT, too! Good morning Tennesee!!!
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    Nissan builds cars in DETROIT, too! Good morning Tennesee!!!
    Didn't know that but will take your word for it. Nothing wrong with a little competition. Only makes us leaner and meaner. checked Nissan's web site yesterday and it said that the Nissan plant here was the largest auto manufacturing plant in the US. I don't know if that is true or not. Maybe it just makes a good story. I do know they are constantly expanding plant structure since I ride by it when going to train. If Detroit finds a better way to compete without a gov. bail out for GM and Chrysler, then we can learn from it. Again competition is good for us. Keeps us from growing stagnant and bloated. Something maybe Detroit has learned. I hope so.

  3. #53
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    I still get a kick out of all the comments about Detroit. Detroit is completely surrounded by extremely wealthy suburbs. The population of Detroit metro area is about 3.7 million, or about 16% of the total. Cities like Detroit and Pontiac had serious problems with racial tension, drugs, and violent crime. People who could afford to leave moved either out of state, out to the suburbs, or they retired to Florida or moved "Up North" as they say in Michigan. That mass exodus left places like Detroit, Pontiac, and Flint without a tax base. If you look closely at the cities that have failed in the state, there is one common denominator. They all had problems with serious racial problems. The troubles with the Big Three and their inability to respond to foreign competition compounded the problems, but I don't think their troubles were the true root of the problem. If you haven't spent significant time in the area, there is no way you could have a good understanding of its history.
    Throw in automation, Wall Street greed, corruption, they all contributed to the demise. It is amazing how often Buzz and others have pointed out these factors to the politically deaf and blind in these threads, that they still utter the same inane bull roar "the unions killed Detroit".

    Additionally, no distressed city could survive the likes of the corrupt and incompetent Kwame Kilpatrick and Donald Williamson regimes. For interesting reading do a Google search on both "gentlemen".

    Flint is notorious for electing convicted felons to office. That practice is not supported by the Union by the way.
    Last edited by zeus3925; 02-12-2014 at 10:12 AM.
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

  4. #54
    Senior Member Brad Turner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caryalsobrook View Post
    Never mind the drivel that Menmon spews. He likes the collective so long as the union boss runs the show but hates the collective when the market runs the show. That is the difference between capitalism and socialism.

    You did make me smile about the county roads but you are also wrong. The county does not own the road, I own the road and have to pay taxes on the land. I can't shut it down or stop anyone from using it but I still have to pay taxes on it. Can't even give it to the county because who would pay taxes on it??? I can't even sell the farm without the road going with it. I just mentioned this because this is quite common and few people are aware of it.
    And the cost of his insurance doesn't interfere with his ability to pay his pro trainer..
    Mioaks Southbound Sammy JH
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    "Luck is the residue of design"- Branch Rickey

  5. #55
    Senior Member swampcollielover's Avatar
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    If you guys would do any research on Detroit you will see that the primary corruption that has impacted the city is by Detroit City Hall!

    Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick was found in guilty on 24 counts, including racketeering, extortion, bribery and tax evasion. His friend and co-defendant, contractor Bobby Ferguson, was found guilty of nine crimes. Kilpatrick's sentencing, one of the harshest corruption sentences in U.S. history, follows the corruption convictions of at least 18 city officials and 16 private individuals.


    From The Detroit News:


    That's what 50 years of Democratic leadership will get you.....so if you want to talk about corruption start here!

  6. #56
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    Buzz.Zeus, Menmon it appears we have a conundrum here. Some folks don't like big government , give aways, GMC/Chrysler handouts but... when it comes to their regional or particular state where local governments give away low-cost land , tax holidays , tax subsidies, guarantee low labor wages and labor's docile behavior that is okay. Obviously neither side represents capitalism. It certainly is not libertarianism! If it walks like a duck , sounds like a duck and looks like a duck it is a duck! We do not have capitalism in this country except on the most small level of entrepreneurialship. I had to pay 22 1/2% interest on a six month $50,000 bank note, while the SBA (Republicans/Democrats) were giving away Tax Revenue Bonds for 4% interest , $1,000,000 for 20 years. So much for encouraging small business.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by menmon View Post
    You are fortunate!!!! Not everybody is blessed like you have been! For whatever reason, God did not make them the same as you, nor gave them the opportunities he did you. Some people don't need unions; they go into business for themselves or management. I'm not saying unions are perfect. There has been bad leadership at times. Just like there has been bad leadership in management. It does not change the fact that union efforts benefit the laborers. With the large companies we have today, union leadership is much needed, because they lay people off based on numbers, not who is giving the best effort. Just like anything, people are going to do what is best for them. It does not mean that a cost plus job is not going to be milked by both labor and management. Because when it ends, there may not be another job to go to. Again, management has control of this. Things are easier in a way in rural America, because people know you, but in the big cities it harder to establish oneself in the workforce. So with all of unions bad, they help us all because their efforts benefit all of us, because they set the standards for how labor should be treated.

    Now letís talk about your tax problem. Letís look at what that road you drive on would cost you if no one paid taxes and you had to build it yourself. Are that school you and children went to if you had to build it yourself or pay that teacher that educated you and your children and this goes on and on. Nobody likes paying taxes, but because we all do, we have a great life here in America. I have been to Sochi, Russia. It is not Park City, Utah. And the reason it is not is folks there don't pay taxes, not because the government does not want them to, but because they can't enforce the payment of them.

    So remember that if we did not pay them, the collective good we have through folks paying a percentage of their works to benefit all, we would be like Russia. So when you get mad because you paid some tax, look around and ask yourself, what would that cost if Mike in Texas and David is South Dakota were not helping pay for it.
    Menmon, after some thought I believe you are right about my being lucky. I never heard of any child labor laws that might have prevented me from delivering newspapers on a bicycle in all sorts of weather at the age of 10-12. Nor was I prevented from a job of mounting a 1 row cotton picker on a John Deere 4010 tractor. Nobody even paid attention that I didn't have a driver's license and delivered groceries when there wasn't even a learner's permit. Nobody told me I could sell my soul in return for gov. "HELP", with the additional gift of dependence and control. I didn't even know business managers(union bosses) even existed much less knew I needed one. Never heard of overtime, scheduled breaks, lunch breaks, minimum wage, pensions or retirement and health benefits. Even after 3 years of college with no debt did I realize that I could buy a $3300 car with $2500 down and make payments on the rest. So I just bought an $1800 car and made do with that. Even after 3 years of college, I didn't know that I could get a student loan to pay for the 4th year, so I took a job traveling 100% of the time with, yes, the Dept of Commerce. Yes it did tell me after a few weeks that if I kept working at the speed I was working, I would have to come back into the office for lack of work to do. I wasn't that stupid. My saving money was based on staying on the road. I didn't even have a place to live. I solved that problem easily. I just worked 4 days a week and played golf the 5th or just goofed off. Saved enough money to pay for that new car and the 4th year of college. I was rather lonely moving around all the time but I got over it and the rewards made it easy.

    Yes I was lucky. I didn't even need a business mamager and was totally ignorant of all this so called "HELP". I just wish kids of today could be as lucky as me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    Throw in automation, Wall Street greed, corruption, they all contributed to the demise. It is amazing how often Buzz and others have pointed out these factors to the politically deaf and blind in these threads, that they still utter the same inane bull roar "the unions killed Detroit".

    Additionally, no distressed city could survive the likes of the corrupt and incompetent Kwame Kilpatrick and Donald Williamson regimes. For interesting reading do a Google search on both "gentlemen".

    Flint is notorious for electing convicted felons to office. That practice is not supported by the Union by the way.
    They will not support convicted felons because of them being in jail. However, if they can run and have a (D), after their name, they will have the unions support.

  9. #59
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampcollielover View Post
    If you guys would do any research on Detroit you will see that the primary corruption that has impacted the city is by Detroit City Hall![FONT="] [/FONT]

    [FONT="]Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick was found in guilty on 24 counts, including racketeering, extortion, bribery and tax evasion. His friend and co-defendant, contractor Bobby Ferguson, was found guilty of nine crimes.[/FONT][FONT="] Kilpatrick's sentencing, one of the harshest corruption sentences in U.S. history, follows the corruption convictions of at least 18 city officials and 16 private individuals.[/FONT]


    From The Detroit News:


    That's what 50 years of Democratic leadership will get you.....so if you want to talk about corruption start here!
    Party affiliation is not controlled by the respective parties. You know that. Some folks are political chameleons. Donald Williamson was a Republican but he understood his ability to get elected to the mayorship and ultimately to the governorship of Michigan was to list his affiliation as Democrat. His party loyalty was only to himself. In fact the Democratic party eschewed both men.
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

  10. #60
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Storts View Post
    They will not support convicted felons because of them being in jail. However, if they can run and have a (D), after their name, they will have the unions support.
    Okay Dan. You stuck your foot in it. Now prove your statement with the evidence. This is going to be interesting.
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

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