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Thread: westminister

  1. #211
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    Sharon, Don't forget the Irish Setter

  2. #212
    Senior Member hotel4dogs's Avatar
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    I agree that beauty pageant is a better description of what conformation has morphed into rather than sport.

    As for your question, I think that is the most productive thing people can do is to try to figure out realistically how to change things. There are no easy answers, but in my opinion the change has to come from the rank and file. (Rhetorical question coming up) How many are members of LRCA, and after the debacle at Westminster wrote/called/emailed the board of LRCA to express their dismay at what the BOB lab looked like? The membership of LRCA needs to let the parent club know how upset they are with the direction the breed has taken in the conformation ring. The LRCA is the ultimate authority on what is happening.
    If enough people raise hell with LRCA, perhaps they will begin to address the issue by educating the judges as to how to judge a labrador, and educate the clubs as to how to select judges who know what a labrador should look like. The parent clubs are responsible for educating the judges.
    People will breed for what wins in the ring. If the judges are educated as to what a proper Labrador should be, and then pressured to judge accordingly by not getting any judging assignments otherwise, perhaps the Labradors can start to swing back a more realistic dog for their function.
    There has been progress in the conformation Goldens that way. Plus some very strong advocates for the breed, a few of whom are members of this forum.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sharon Potter View Post
    That wasn't my intention, and I apologize if I've offended you. I appreciate your passion for what you're doing and I do see your viewpoint. It's just that every time the conformation stuff is brought up, folks who exhibit strictly in conformation immediately try to deflect the topic to what the field dogs do and look like, rather than addressing the real issue of how much the show Lab has morphed into something it was never intended to be. The field dogs aren't the ones who are supposed to set the example for what a breed is supposed to look like...that's the conformation dogs.

    While I will say that there are many events I would consider a sport....from obedience to agility to the myriad of other things dogs do at shows....conformation is most certainly not a sport, as there is zero athletic ability involved outside of a very short jog. It is better compared to a beauty pageant. I cringe every time I hear that Westminster announcer or anyone else mention "the sport of purebred dogs". Purebred dogs in itself is not a sport...it's the cool skill sets and things they do that qualify as a sport.

    Here's my question now: How do we get the conformation dogs back to the breed standard? Is it up to the judges? Are there enough competent judges who will stand up for what the breed is supposed to look and function like? Or is it a lost cause and the show Labrador is going the way of the Standard Poodle and the Springer and the American Cocker and will continue to deteriorate until it is no longer recognizable as a sporting breed in the show ring?

    Barb Gibson
    with
    CH Rosewood Little Giant UDX VER RA MHU SH MXP MJP XFP T2BP VCX WCX CCA CGC FFX-OG
    also UCH HR UUD UJJ URO1 UHIT
    (golden retriever) born 3-10-07
    a.k.a. "Tito", "The Tito Monster"
    www.GoTeamTito.com

  3. #213
    Senior Member labguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdA View Post
    Sharon, Don't forget the Irish Setter
    Probably the best example of intelligence, ability, and instinct being bred out of an animal for the sake of the show ring.
    If I/we/you can't continue to advance our methods that focus on making training easier to learn/less painful for the dogs, we have no right to be training them. (Alec Sparks)


    FTCH AFTCH NOREMAC'S UNDERTAKER (DIGGER) QFTR JFTR
    -2012 Canadian National Amateur Retriever Championship Finalist
    -2011 Canadian High Point Qualifying Retreiver

    BARFLY'S DEADLY AIM (SNIPER) QFTR JFTR
    -2012 Canadian High Point Qualifying Retriever
    -2011 Canadian High Point Junior (Derby) Champion

  4. #214
    Senior Member Sharon Potter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdA View Post
    Sharon, Don't forget the Irish Setter
    Another great example of what breeding for hair and overdone features can do. Let's see how narrow we can make the skull, and how long the hair can grow.

    I'm glad to see that a few breeds are getting back toward functionality, like Barb mentioned with the Goldens. I love seeing a dog that looks like it could do its job in the field, like this year's Golden at Westminster. Some English Setters are heading that way too, with owners working toward show and field with some success. One that really makes me laugh is when they say the haircut on a standard poodle comes from the days when it needed to retrieve, to keep the joints warm. How about leaving all the hair and keeping the whole dog warm?
    Sharon Potter

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    Team Huntsmith

  5. #215
    Senior Member Jeffrey Towler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labguy View Post
    Probably the best example of intelligence, ability, and instinct being bred out of an animal for the sake of the show ring.
    The show bred English Springer Spaniel is right there with show bred Irish Setter.

  6. #216
    Senior Member Steve Amrein's Avatar
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    I will repeat this but not give out the name of the owner. A person who is in to Goldens does field show and agility work. He went to one ot the Golden specialties and along with other stuff had entered a dog to get its confirmation certificate. The dog failed. The dog went on to get quite a few show ribbons, Dont know if it made CH.
    "Communism only works in Heaven, where they don't need it, and in Hell, where they already have it" Ronald Reagan

  7. #217
    Senior Member windycanyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharon Potter View Post
    Another great example of what breeding for hair and overdone features can do. Let's see how narrow we can make the skull, and how long the hair can grow.

    I'm glad to see that a few breeds are getting back toward functionality, like Barb mentioned with the Goldens. I love seeing a dog that looks like it could do its job in the field, like this year's Golden at Westminster. Some English Setters are heading that way too, with owners working toward show and field with some success. One that really makes me laugh is when they say the haircut on a standard poodle comes from the days when it needed to retrieve, to keep the joints warm. How about leaving all the hair and keeping the whole dog warm?
    Just a side note, but that poodle looked crazed in the eyes. Who on earth would want to run out and buy one after seeing that? I agree, that cut is completely ridiculous.

  8. #218
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    The American Border Collie Association fought against akc recognition for years and finally lost in 1995. They still feel it will distroy their true quality and working instinct. Still a lot of the working breeders have kept their stick from being registered with the akc.

  9. #219
    Senior Member Kirk Keene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Storts View Post
    The American Border Collie Association fought against akc recognition for years and finally lost in 1995. They still feel it will distroy their true quality and working instinct. Still a lot of the working breeders have kept their stick from being registered with the akc.
    If I'm not mistaken, a group of Boykin breeders did the same thing. Any Boykin folks out there want to verify this for me?

  10. #220
    Senior Member Kirk Keene's Avatar
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    Ch. June of Sandylands.jpg

    Here's a shot of Ch. June of Sandylands. I believe she was whelped in the late 1930's. She is my favorite representation of female Labrador type, as set forth by the breed Standard.

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