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Thread: westminister

  1. #251
    Senior Member 3blackdogs's Avatar
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    I very much appreciate most of the commentary and debate in this thread. I too, like most of you, couldn't believe what I was seeing when I saw the picture of that poor bitch. This is just me, but my first thoughts were "that poor animal is destined for early joint problems and a shortened life".

    I haven't read every single post, so if this has already been mentioned, please forgive the redundancy.

    Perhaps what I find the most troubling is that weight issues in dogs, much like in people, shorten their lives. No respectable breeder, owner, judge - whomever - should promote something so directly contrary to good health and longevity. There is some science behind this, for those that need to see it in writing rather than rely on a healthy dose of common sense. While the Purina 14 yr life-span study is somewhat long in the tooth (2002), I don't believe that the fundamental conclusion has changed: being overweight shortens a dog's life. Period. How appropriate that the study population was Labrador retrievers.

    "Median life span was increased by 1.8 years, or 15 percent, in the lean-fed dogs compared to the control dogs. Median life span (age at which 50 percent of the dogs in the group had died) was 11.2 years in the control group compared to 13 years in the lean-fed group."

    http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/dvm...l.jsp?id=26745

    The original study:

    https://www.avma.org/News/Journals/C...220_9_1315.pdf.
    ________________________
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  2. #252
    Senior Member Jeffrey Towler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by .44 magnum View Post
    I'd like to make a comment, but first thank the RTF forum for many, many years of helpful insight. Knowing I am just a hunter and not in the game of being a professional FT. I've never felt the need to join this forum. But Westminster and the reactions got me motivated.

    There are many fine, well balanced, Show type Labradors that were either not chosen or did not participate in this years Westminster Dog Show. My thoughts are the judge had an agenda. She either likes "Typy" Labradors and chioose the most fitting to her eye(which may mean she needs her eyes examined) or she did not want a Labrador to have any chance winning the Best in Sporting Dog group.

    The opposite happened at Crufts this past year. A Panel of judges chose Loch More Romeo, a three year old Italian bred Labrador with a Sire from the States. Romeo went on to come up just short of winning Crufts, Europe's most prestigious show. Crufts uses a judge to look at the "Bitches", and another to evaluate the dogs. This year the two judges could not agree who should win best in breed and a higher ranked judge chose Romeo. Romeo is a well balanced Labrador with much muscle and plenty of air under him. Best of all he is a Showman. The bright lights and crowds bring out his best.

    Not all Show breeders are equal. There are plenty that put Balance and temperament first as well as knowing what the breed standard calls for. A certain group of breeders from Michigan have "Over done" Labradors and have gained influence over what the judges put up for winners. The "Typy" Labrador is something of an abomination today because the lady from Michigan who started it all passed away a few years back. Annie Cogo knew what balance meant and her Windfall Kennel produced beautiful "Typy" Labradors. One Black Piper perhaps the most perfect girl ever produced. Once Annie Cogo died Show Labradors have continued to get more "typy" at the expense of Balance. Annie had a following and without her to critique pups big and typy just got bigger.

    Maybe one day judges at Westminster will put up a Labrador that would have a chance to win. Not having five posts I can't post URLS , but just google Romeo Reserve winner at Crufts and watch the You Tube videos of a special Labrador. He may be Italian, but his roots are in America.
    "44 Magnum" that will get the job done for sure . It would be great if you used your real name and where your from. I understand where your coming from, I think. Thru anecdotal contact at hunt test with show people, I have heard the vernacular "over Done" to describe a lab. Never have I heard a hunter use that term to describe a dog. If your here to say the "Michigan Mafia" screwed up the show labs all by themselves, I ain't buying it. Please use your real name and where your from.

  3. #253
    Senior Member PalouseDogs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvalab View Post
    I am NOT in any way advocating this or saying it is called for in this instance, because I just don't know enough. I don't know even how I feel about the idea.

    However, I find myself wondering...


    Is there any sort of sanction for a judge who awards a first place that is outside of the standards? Or is the judge the judge, and must be allowed to judge?
    The club hosting a show gets to select judges. The "sanction" for a judge that choses a dog that doesn't look like the show dog norm is that the judge would not get many future assignments. Remember, most of the dogs in conformation shows are professionally handled and the owners of the dogs usually don't do any dog activities other than conformation. (Most breeds don't have any function in today's world except companion, anyway, and an awful lot of them, IMO, make terrible pets.) An expectation develops among pro handlers and exhibitors about the type of dog that should win and, if a judge defies those expectations, that judge won't be making a living as a judge very long.
    Kelly Cassidy (person)

    HR Maple Cassidy CDX JH RE (golden retriever)
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    plus whacked-out weird Burka (elderly mix-breed rescue girl)

  4. #254
    Senior Member Breck's Avatar
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    Crufts?
    The only Labrador worth looking at that has been to Crufts is .....
    2XNOC/OTCH Count Tyler Show Me The Money UDX7 OM6 MH
    .
    www.offa.org/healthch/healthch_lab.html
    Last edited by Breck; 02-22-2014 at 06:29 PM.
    "Darla" AFC Candlewoods Lil Smokin Tequila (2002-2013)(fondly remembered)
    "Smoke" Smokin Auggies Menace, QAA (2003- )(retired nut case, ask Rando)
    "Simba" Humewood Simba (1999-2014)(my 1st dog)

    .
    Per favore, non mi rompere i coglioni.
    Grazie




  5. #255
    Senior Member Steve Shaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by .44 magnum View Post
    I'd like to make a comment, but first thank the RTF forum for many, many years of helpful insight. Knowing I am just a hunter and not in the game of being a professional FT. I've never felt the need to join this forum. But Westminster and the reactions got me motivated.

    There are many fine, well balanced, Show type Labradors that were either not chosen or did not participate in this years Westminster Dog Show. My thoughts are the judge had an agenda. She either likes "Typy" Labradors and chioose the most fitting to her eye(which may mean she needs her eyes examined) or she did not want a Labrador to have any chance winning the Best in Sporting Dog group.

    The opposite happened at Crufts this past year. A Panel of judges chose Loch More Romeo, a three year old Italian bred Labrador with a Sire from the States. Romeo went on to come up just short of winning Crufts, Europe's most prestigious show. Crufts uses a judge to look at the "Bitches", and another to evaluate the dogs. This year the two judges could not agree who should win best in breed and a higher ranked judge chose Romeo. Romeo is a well balanced Labrador with much muscle and plenty of air under him. Best of all he is a Showman. The bright lights and crowds bring out his best.

    Not all Show breeders are equal. There are plenty that put Balance and temperament first as well as knowing what the breed standard calls for. A certain group of breeders from Michigan have "Over done" Labradors and have gained influence over what the judges put up for winners. The "Typy" Labrador is something of an abomination today because the lady from Michigan who started it all passed away a few years back. Annie Cogo knew what balance meant and her Windfall Kennel produced beautiful "Typy" Labradors. One Black Piper perhaps the most perfect girl ever produced. Once Annie Cogo died Show Labradors have continued to get more "typy" at the expense of Balance. Annie had a following and without her to critique pups big and typy just got bigger.

    Maybe one day judges at Westminster will put up a Labrador that would have a chance to win. Not having five posts I can't post URLS , but just google Romeo Reserve winner at Crufts and watch the You Tube videos of a special Labrador. He may be Italian, but his roots are in America.




    Well beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Not saying Romeo is a bad looking dog, he is NOT. Although in my opinion he is still a little on the heavy side but not nearly as bad as some.
    I'll come right out and say it.... I think the American field bred lab in general is much better looking. Ya there are some really ugly ones, saw a couple today, but over all I by far prefer the looks of the American field bred lab in general. Again just my opinion but if the field bred labs has strayed from the standard that somebody wrote (their opinion) I say it is for the better of the breed (my opinion).

  6. #256
    Senior Member Bridget Bodine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breck View Post
    Crufts?
    The only Labrador worth looking at that has been to Crufts is .....
    2XNOC/OTCH Count Tyler Show Me The Money UDX7 OM6 MH
    .
    www.offa.org/healthch/healthch_lab.html
    Who, unfortunately passed away from cancer last fall....very sad
    BB
    Sight To Sea Labradors
    Southern Cross at Sight to Sea SH "Crosby" (by NAFC FC AFC Cody Cut a Lean Grade)
    Tealwood's Willing at Sight to Sea JH ( by CH I am Able)
    Briarglen's Running on Faith JH (by FC Fish River's Out of the Park)
    Glendair's Come Home to the Sea ( By Ch Topform's Edward MH, QAA)
    Sight To Sea's Take Aim SH (by Sight to Sea's Southern Comfort SH )Aug 23 2003-Feb 2013 Go get em , Man!

    Manager of www.DeCoverlykennels.com

  7. #257
    Senior Member HPL's Avatar
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    Seems to me that perhaps there should be a rule that photos from about four angles of all winning show labs should have to be sent to the parent organization before the points are recorded. Or perhaps the photos should be filed by judge and if a particular judge seems to be choosing inappropriate champions review that judge's credentials.
    Any doctrine that weakens personal responsibility for judgment and for action helps create the attitudes that welcome and support the totalitarian state.
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  8. #258
    Senior Member polmaise's Avatar
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    Crufts ! Crufts You say?..Pictures from all angles>? Conformation and 'Show' - Off'!

    Watch out for this little guy at 'Crufts' . I reckon proof that they can do it in the shooting field no matter the gundog breed!..So why not start with an ''American'' ?
    Gumbo in the mags 2.jpgGumbo in the mags.jpg
    One Shooter One Spaniel One Retriever

  9. #259
    Senior Member Sabireley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breck View Post
    Crufts?
    The only Labrador worth looking at that has been to Crufts is .....
    2XNOC/OTCH Count Tyler Show Me The Money UDX7 OM6 MH
    .
    www.offa.org/healthch/healthch_lab.html
    Check out Tyler's pedigree...

    http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=494484

  10. #260
    Senior Member Breck's Avatar
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    I know Steve. If I had the right bitch I would look at going to him. Hope she banked some straws.
    "Darla" AFC Candlewoods Lil Smokin Tequila (2002-2013)(fondly remembered)
    "Smoke" Smokin Auggies Menace, QAA (2003- )(retired nut case, ask Rando)
    "Simba" Humewood Simba (1999-2014)(my 1st dog)

    .
    Per favore, non mi rompere i coglioni.
    Grazie




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