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Thread: Are the written breed standards this different?

  1. #21

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    Well the standard is one thing and what the breed judges put up is not the standard.The thing they like is a huge head and big huge tail and a body that looks like a propane bottle with legs.This is a disgrace the breed dogs of the past were not like this just look at the old pictures.

  2. #22
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    I agree it's in the judging. They should look at the dogs and the standard. Not which dog is the best out of the bunch. Let me explain, in the last two shows my foster lab was able to enter, the first one his handler did not enter him, because he was to athletic as compared to the other dogs entered. She new the judge would compare him to them, not the standards, and he looked, in comparison, to thin. The second show same field but that judge was known for liking athletic dogs. He was the only dog entered with any other tittle, JH, the judge made mention of it, and when he won the breed, mentioned of the 50 plus dogs he was the only one that could physically do the job he was meant to. I think that the problem on both sides of the fence, show and field have gone with what wins, very few stick with the standard which is the middle or the standard. I know my field lab would never get a second look in the ring (carries the tail to high). But she can do things in the field that my foster show dog can't not, not due to drive or ability, but the endurance, to train to that level. He should get his SH this summer and hopefully his last point for his show CH. If he's not to in shape, due to training this summer to get that SH.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Sabireley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrinGreene View Post
    I use my 51 lb BLF to do obedience demos for clients and you wouldn't believe how many people ask me "is that a lab". I don't have a full frontal pic of her but she looks like the epitome of the performance bitches we see every weekend at a trial. You couldn't mistake her for anything else.

    Granted... the average person doesn't know any better but they often make comments leading me to believe that they think the show standard is, in fact what a lab should look like.
    I also get that with the dog in my avatar. I take my dogs to work so they are seen by lots of people in the elevator. I get... "what a pretty dog. What kind is it. It's a lab, is it a pure bred? Oh, she is so thin. I have a lab but he weighs 100 lbs." Along with "she is so well behaved. Can you train my dog/kids/husband to be that good?" She won't win any beauty contests, but is put together well. She has a great coat, decent tail (though a bit long), narrow head, a bit of a tuck, and a very definite waist.

  4. #24
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotel4dogs View Post
    The Golden was developed to be a gentleman's hunting companion, hunting upland game in Scotland.
    Not the same as the Chessie, who was developed to hunt waterfowl under the most adverse weather and water conditions.
    Very different functions, different temperaments, different body structures.
    Say again?

    They are Retrievers, not runway models.

    A Retriever is what it DOES.
    Not what it looks like.

    What a Retriever does, is retrieve birds.
    It can do other things too, but the one thing that it must do, is pick up the chickens.
    Considering the fact that God limited the intelligence of man, it seems unfair that he did not also limit his stupidity". -Unknown

  5. #25
    Senior Member Scott Adams's Avatar
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    I think that dogs coat is too short. Otherwise it's a nice looking Newfie.
    NAFTCH FTCH AFTCH Mjolnir Bluebill Of Allanport
    Flatlands Bayduck of Allanport
    Dakota Creek Teal of Allanport

  6. #26
    Senior Member Trifecta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copterdoc View Post
    Say again?

    They are Retrievers, not runway models.

    A Retriever is what it DOES.
    Not what it looks like.

    What a Retriever does, is retrieve birds.
    It can do other things too, but the one thing that it must do, is pick up the chickens.
    "What it looks like" is exactly what separates it from the other retrievers. That is where the standard differs... its called breed type. According to your logic, anything that retrieves should be registered as a Labrador.
    Natalie Fraser, DVM
    Trifecta Labradors

    Home to my heart dog, Hudson:
    Am/Can Ch. Marshyhope's Satisfaction, CGC, WC, CDX, RE, JH

  7. #27
    Senior Member Sharon Potter's Avatar
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    There are dogs on both sides that lack type. There are field dogs that lack bone and substance and have a slick coat with no undercoat. And there are show dogs that are very shortlegged and overweight, with overdone heads that no longer resemble the breed. Neither type is a good example of a Labrador Retriever.

    There are, however, some lovely dogs that meet the breed standard, and they are found in the field and in the ring. What would be nice is if we could eliminate the extremes and keep to what the dogs are supposed to look like and what they're supposed to do.
    Sharon Potter

    www.redbranchkennels.net

    Chesapeake Bay Retrievers...too many to list.

    Team Huntsmith

  8. #28
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trifecta View Post
    "What it looks like" is exactly what separates it from the other retrievers. That is where the standard differs... its called breed type. According to your logic, anything that retrieves should be registered as a Labrador.
    No, it would also need to be a Labrador Retriever.

    It's a multiple tiered system.

    The Parent Club sets the standard.
    The Registry maintains the breed's integrity.
    The Conformation Ring maintains the appearance standard.
    And Field Trials maintain the performance standard.

    And we have fun with it.
    Considering the fact that God limited the intelligence of man, it seems unfair that he did not also limit his stupidity". -Unknown

  9. #29
    Senior Member twall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copterdoc View Post
    No, it would also need to be a Labrador Retriever.

    It's a multiple tiered system.

    The Parent Club sets the standard.
    The Registry maintains the breed's integrity.
    The Conformation Ring maintains the appearance standard.
    And Field Trials maintain the performance standard.

    And we have fun with it.
    I don't think the registry, AKC in this case, maintains a breeds integrity. It just makes sure pups are produced by animals registrered as that breed. They don't do anything to maintain breed type or characteristics.

    To equate the conformation ring to maintaining breed appearance shows a lack of understanding of what the show ring is all about.

    I quickly looked at the Lab and Chessie breed standards and neither of them mention any performance standards. Field trials are about finding the best dog that day, they do nothing to maintain any part of a breed standard. In fact, it could be argued that field trials have done as much, or more, to move a segment of the breed away from the standard than backyard breeders. Many breeders, buyers and competitors of field trials do not care if a dog conforms to its' breed standard if it will bring back the chickens.

    It comes down to the goals of the individual dog owners desires. If a large enough percentage desire to have a breed conform to its' standard breeders will try to produce puppies that do. If a large enough percentage of puppy buyers only want dogs that excell at their venue of choice then breeders will produce puppies that will do that regardless of conformation to the breed standard.

    Tom
    Tom Wall

  10. #30
    Senior Member hotel4dogs's Avatar
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    The more popular a breed becomes, the more problematic this is because so many of the puppy buyers don't have a clue what the breed is supposed to look like, act like, or be able to do. In breeds as popular as labs and goldens, very few puppy buyers want to excel in any venue except house pet.

    Quote Originally Posted by twall View Post
    I don't think the registry, AKC in this case, maintains a breeds integrity. It just makes sure pups are produced by animals registrered as that breed. They don't do anything to maintain breed type or characteristics.

    To equate the conformation ring to maintaining breed appearance shows a lack of understanding of what the show ring is all about.

    I quickly looked at the Lab and Chessie breed standards and neither of them mention any performance standards. Field trials are about finding the best dog that day, they do nothing to maintain any part of a breed standard. In fact, it could be argued that field trials have done as much, or more, to move a segment of the breed away from the standard than backyard breeders. Many breeders, buyers and competitors of field trials do not care if a dog conforms to its' breed standard if it will bring back the chickens.

    It comes down to the goals of the individual dog owners desires. If a large enough percentage desire to have a breed conform to its' standard breeders will try to produce puppies that do. If a large enough percentage of puppy buyers only want dogs that excell at their venue of choice then breeders will produce puppies that will do that regardless of conformation to the breed standard.

    Tom

    Barb Gibson
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    CH Rosewood Little Giant UDX VER RA SH MXP MJP OFP VCX WCX CCA CGC FFX-OG
    also UCH HR UUD UJJ URO1 UHIT
    (golden retriever) born 3-10-07
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