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Thread: VW/UAW/Tennessee

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    Default VW/UAW/Tennessee

    UAW loses organizational election @ TN plant. 712-626 What a deal for free enterprise when VW invests $1 billion but got $577 million of "pork" incentives from the state , counties and local city. This is not capitalism but socialism !

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    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swliszka View Post
    UAW loses organizational election @ TN plant. 712-626 What a deal for free enterprise when VW invests $1 billion but got $577 million of "pork" incentives from the state , counties and local city. This is not capitalism but socialism !
    You seem to feel strongly about it. In what state do you reside?
    Bill Davis

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    I'm very glad the union lost!!
    Maybe VW will add another line now. That new plant construction has been great for the economy, no need for the union to screw that up.
    Chad
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    Hey huntinman my chum on the water has finally got a nibble. My irritation is all over America we hear, read , see the great message of self-reliance , hard work , self-sacrifice. Yet you southern folks w/14 foreign auto plants all non-union (proudly stated by regional residents) are highly critical of northern (Washington state to Maine)states. conduct/politics. I happen to be first an American and have lived all over the US west of the Rocky Mountains. By allowing people to continue the Civil War we are only harming ourselves because the powers to be play off regions against one another. What happened to the VW plant in Pennsylvania some years ago - with all their northern give aways? Closed! Do you really think these new plants have any loyalty to the south? MN--MA - GA

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    Sorry my passion took over my logic - lived/worked EAST of the Rocky Mountains. Chad when currency fluctuations change , raw material charges change and transportation costd elevate do you think TN will still be a viable place of manufacturing? Do you know about the 1950-60s when northern manufacturing fled south for non-union cheap docile labor coupled w/free gov't giveaways ? By the 1980s southern manufacturing went to Taiwan and now on to China/Bangladesh. We Americans are being played by NAFTA. Chad how many southerners moved north /west after WWII ? I am not an isolationist but I do believe in free/fair trade.

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    would it not be accurate to say it this way, "vw invests $433 million and the state, counties and local city invest $577 million of monies they didn't have anyway."($1billion - $577 millinon = $433 million)

    i admit i have not followed this story. but for discussion let's say a state, a county and a city all conceed "future" taxes on income and real estate improvements to incent a project in their area. these governments are looking at "actual future income" of "agricultural" tax assessments and rates on property and maybe some income tax(but not in tennessee) from farming or (once every thirty years) logging.

    when govt tells a company "we will not tax you for ten years if you locate here", is this govt not only conceeding something it would not have already. the only thing that changes as far as revenues go is that you loose insignificant taxes on real estate and agricultural income. governments may also make some dollar investments in infrastructure such as utilities and access.

    what they get is 1,000 or so employees all working in their state, new executives moving in buying and building new homes, young families working and buying food clothing and essentials, executives from germany or where ever coming and staying in and conducting meetings in local hotels and restaurants and on and on and on. then ten years later the govts start collecting the huge taxes they "conceeded" to make the investment in the project. btw this is long after spin off businesses (who required no incentives) have been built to support the new plant. these supporting businesses have all been taxed to help pay for the real dollar infrastructure investments.

    i know the area of the vw plant and there was not much there to begin with, so what's the problem?
    Last edited by roseberry; 02-15-2014 at 09:25 AM.
    john mccallie

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    Senior Member Matt McKenzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roseberry View Post
    would it not be accurate to say it this way, "vw invests $433 million and the state, counties and local city invest $577 million of monies they didn't have anyway."($1billion - $577 millinon = $433 million)

    i admit i have not followed this story. but for discussion let's say a state, a county and a city all conceed "future" taxes on income and real estate improvements to incent a project in their area. these governments are looking at "actual future income" of "agricultural" tax assessments and rates on property and maybe some income tax(but not in tennessee) from farming or (once every thirty years) logging.

    when govt tells a company "we will not tax you for ten years if you locate here", is this govt not only conceeding something it would not have already. the only thing that changes as far as revenues go is that you loose insignificant taxes on real estate and agricultural income. governments may also make some dollar investments in infrastructure such as utilities and access.

    what they get is 1,000 or so employees all working in their state, new executives moving in buying and building new homes, young families working and buying food clothing and essentials, executives from germany or where ever coming and staying in and conducting meetings in local hotels and restaurants and on and on and on. then ten years later the govts start collecting the huge taxes they "conceeded" to make the investment in the project. btw this is long after spin off businesses (who required no incentives) have been built to support the new plant. these supporting businesses have all been taxed to help pay for the real dollar infrastructure investments.

    i know the area of the vw plant and there was not much there to begin with, so what's the problem?
    Well-stated John. Unfortunately, too often, the truth doesn't fit the narrative that someone is trying to sell. I find it interesting that the OP seems to misunderstand the definition of the various economic systems. How a group of employees choosing not to unionize makes for socialism is beyond me. Maybe I'm just not smart enough to get it.
    Matt McKenzie

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    Quote Originally Posted by swliszka View Post
    Hey huntinman my chum on the water has finally got a nibble. My irritation is all over America we hear, read , see the great message of self-reliance , hard work , self-sacrifice. Yet you southern folks w/14 foreign auto plants all non-union (proudly stated by regional residents) are highly critical of northern (Washington state to Maine)states. conduct/politics. I happen to be first an American and have lived all over the US west of the Rocky Mountains. By allowing people to continue the Civil War we are only harming ourselves because the powers to be play off regions against one another. What happened to the VW plant in Pennsylvania some years ago - with all their northern give aways? Closed! Do you really think these new plants have any loyalty to the south? MN--MA - GA
    sw, how you choose to COMPETE from your state is of no concern to me. Your state can set a minimum wage of $1,000/ hr. for all I care. Surely then all can have as many BMW's in their driveway as they choose. It can even set a 30 hr. work week touting it as an opportunity for the worker to stay home, for all I care.

    The "powers that be", as you call them JUST WANT TO COMPETE. If we find out that another state's way is better, we will change. That is what competition is about. No whining, or excuses, we will just take our lumps and change if we see a better way. You are right about one thing. To long has the Civil War gone on. We have been under the thumb of Reconstruction for over 100 years. We just want to compete, AND WE DON'T NEED ANOTHER STATE TO TELL US HOW TO DO IT!! We believe that the highest priority is to make a better product at a cheaper price because that is what defines success. Your state believe differently? GO FOR IT. Your state right economically? Then we will change. We are right then your state can either sink or swim. Up to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by swliszka View Post
    UAW loses organizational election @ TN plant. 712-626 What a deal for free enterprise when VW invests $1 billion but got $577 million of "pork" incentives from the state , counties and local city. This is not capitalism but socialism !
    With decent management unions are completely unnecessary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Baker View Post
    I'm very glad the union lost!!
    Maybe VW will add another line now. That new plant construction has been great for the economy, no need for the union to screw that up.
    Chad
    Interesting. The company was actually in favor of the union coming in and helping them implement their works councils. I'll be interested to see if their next expansion happened in Tennessee or Mexico. I respect the worker's right to reject the opportunity to participate with management in making decisions about the future of VW, but I'm not so sure that decision will weigh in their favor when VW decides where to expand.
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