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Thread: Why no english looking labs loaded with FC/AFC pedigree's

  1. #31
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    Thanks Steve
    Gentle in what you do. Firm in how you do it.

    CH SILVERCREEK MURRAY SAMUEL (MURRAY) WDQ CGC MH *** 2/16/00 - 12/26/12
    WESTWIND WHISPERING COVE (LARRY son of Murray) WDQ MH ***
    LPK DELAWARE RIVER WHISPERING COVE **(SAVAGE SAM son of FC Chester MH)
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  2. #32
    Senior Member Breck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtncntrykid View Post

    So - seems to be a couple of refrences pertaining to speed listed in style. This definitly favors todays field trial body confirmation.
    .
    I imagine so. But to put the speed reference into context I think it has more to do with the desire not to watch a lumbering pig than it is an expectation of race horses.
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  3. #33
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Hmmm, Even in the old days, not every FC-AFC had it in them to be a CH, but Pull out the old DC pics, there's a nice one (with a DC and his offspring, all titled DC, a CH, and a FC-AFC) up top of entry express. Go to a FT, go to a Conformation show, tell me which venue you'll be able to find dogs that look and preform more like a Dual Champion. Take a 5 yr. old child with you and ask them to judge. Ask anyone off the street what is a Lab, they'll say (Marley, Old Yellar, etc.) which style do all these movies stars look like? Which style do we see in video from Iraq, digging people out of rubble during 9-11, running agility and dock dog? Which style is in most backyards, in most duck blinds, on every hunting magazine, every dog-food commercial, even the Purina one they showed mulitple times during Westminster ?

    Have both sides lost their way (Perhaps), but one side has gone so far off what used to be, and what a Labrador is suppose to be able to do that, one could argue they no longer breed labs. Heck when the breeders describe them as "ENGLISH Labs", I figure that was so we know what the breed they actually are . I'm not sure why one would want a Labrador to be described as English (no offense to the English working lab), but I live in American, I hunt and trial American Style we've directed the Labrador breed that way since they were brought over in the early 1900's (we don't drive game-we don't have spaniels out flushing, or beaters, or blockers) We hunt dogs usually individually on a variety of game, in many different conditions, for that we need an athletic-lighter dog (Form follows function), and yet we still had Dual Champions until 1984, 2 of those won nationals.

    Still I bet there are a great variety of ENGLISH dogs with solid Gold Field champion performance pedigrees; however they are in ENGLAND, good luck convincing those chaps, to be sending their stock over here, I believe you have to be a blood relation, even then it's questionable . (Still we could throw up a few pictures, as we've done many times and judge which of their American counter-parts (the FC's or the CH's) they look more like .

    And now you've all got me into a Show vs. field rant, before my morning coffee

    Peanut clause; We all love our dogs and I have nothing against show labs, their breeders, nor their type. Just as I have nothing against any other breed of dog (Rottwielers, bloodhounds etc) different from my breed Conformation showing is a passion, a sport and one does what they need to succeed in any venue.
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 02-18-2014 at 11:47 AM.
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  4. #34
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    I am surprised NO ONE mention "english looking" in the OP is off course. English FIELD dogs look just like their American counterpart. Not to be confused with BENCH dogs.
    Last edited by Losthwy; 02-21-2014 at 03:16 PM.
    What its prominence suggest, and what all science confirms is that the dog is a creature of the nose- A. Horowitz.

  5. #35
    Senior Member RookieTrainer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Robinson View Post
    I've had two dog that if it were a timed event would have been FC/AFCs. Unfortunate for them good lines, small hunts and not cheating water are valued over pure speed.

    John
    I have one right now in the same boat. He is tall, large-boned, and a pretty muscular 75 pounds. And he can flat fly.
    Steve Wyatt

    HR Belle's Rolling Big Rig "Jimmy"

  6. #36
    Senior Member Scott Adams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Losthwy View Post
    I am surprised NO ONE mention "english looking" in the OP is off course. English FIELD dogs look just like their American counterpart. Not to be confused with BENCH dogs.
    Exactly! UK Working retrievers are GOOD looking dogs.
    North American Bench champions are not, in my opinion.
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  7. #37
    Senior Member Swack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Losthwy View Post
    I am surprised NO ONE mention "english looking" in the OP is off course. English FIELD dogs look just like their American counterpart. Not to be confused with BENCH dogs.
    Losthwy,

    I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. IMHO "British" field Labs do not "look just like their American Counterpart." I've spent some time exploring the British field Labrador and have outcrossed with that population over the past decade +. There are definite differences, both in physical conformation and in temperament.

    However, I do agree that "English" show Labs should not be confused with "British" field Labs.

    Swack
    Jeff Swackhamer

  8. #38
    Senior Member .44 magnum's Avatar
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    Best you can get is a dog like Rudy. he got his Master hunter title last year . Unfortunately field trial champs do not have enough conformation points for the show breeders to get what they want. FC's may be be wonderful athlete's but also lack what the Labrador Standard calls for. Mostly they are over height.

    http://marjolabradors.weebly.com/rudy.html

  9. #39
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    Here are links to a Retriever field trialsl in Scotland. I know Mr. Eugene Mallory has posted in the past with images of UK Labradors. Those dogs have little resemblance to bench dogs as do US field dogs. From everything I have read their temperament are different from US field trial dogs. My comments are limited to appearance.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr-LnyWJpvg
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieqTpro1QKU
    Last edited by Losthwy; 02-22-2014 at 05:13 PM.
    What its prominence suggest, and what all science confirms is that the dog is a creature of the nose- A. Horowitz.

  10. #40
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by .44 magnum View Post
    Best you can get is a dog like Rudy. he got his Master hunter title last year . Unfortunately field trial champs do not have enough conformation points for the show breeders to get what they want. FC's may be be wonderful athlete's but also lack what the Labrador Standard calls for. Mostly they are over height.

    http://marjolabradors.weebly.com/rudy.html
    Rudy looks like a wonderful animal and MH is a big deal, I can tell you are proud and you should be. That said I think you overgeneralized field trial dogs. I'm a Golden guy, but I do a lot of judging as well as having run field trials against mostly Lab competition for almost twenty years, and I can tell you that field trial dogs come in all shapes and sizes. FC-AFCs may be fast, medium and slow, tall, short and medium. What they have in common is they tend to be very athletic and lean from running hard in training every day. I have seen some ugly Labs with poor confirmation do well in field trials, but I have also seen some very good looking FCC-AFC Labs, Goldens and Chessies.

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