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Thread: Does 100% positive reinforcement retriever training exist?

  1. #11
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    I really value positive training and use it whenever possible to help teach the dog new skills. I have found it great for obedience and puppy training but I question its value with advanced retriever training (though retriever training is inherently positive - as long as there's a bird at the end of every retrieve). I also don't think there is such a thing as 100% positive.

    With that said, I think you can train a decent or even nice gundog able to do multiples and blinds without the use of force or aversives. Below are a couple of folks I know about who try to take a "purely positive" approach.

    Lindsay Ridgeway (mentioned above):
    http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/User:Li.../Print_Version

    Lorie Jolley
    http://www.rosehillretrievers.com/book.html

    and Robert Milner

  2. #12
    Senior Member Trifecta's Avatar
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    There is a book out there titled "Positively Fetching". I believe it is actually for obedience competition and not (directly) related to field work, but it goes through the process of shaping a motivational retrieve using positive reinforcement.

    I think some of the difference between "Casual" dog trainers (not to mean low quality... I mean pet obedience style) and "competition" dog training is the standard of perfection that we ask or attempt to attain with our dogs. For example, I have taught all of my dogs using positive reinforcement- I think this is really necessary for learning a new behavior. However, when it comes to polishing known behaviors, I think well timed and fair corrections have their place. In many ways I think it takes the dog's performance from average to outstanding.

    just my 2 cents.
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  3. #13
    Senior Member polmaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danjor92 View Post
    My questions is does 100% positive reinforcement retriever trainers or programs even exist?
    I'm sure if there was you would hear them louder than Doris Day
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fU8tQpCZEzg
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  4. #14
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun_Dog2002 View Post
    Your highlighting the fact that the truth being a positive or a negative is completely in the opinion of the one receiving it.

    /paul
    John and Paul your comments are very entertaining. You must have nothing to do! Me I am waiting for our next snowstorm this afternoon.

    As for a positive trainer?? where is Jennifer H. I do like Hillman's DVD as it is the softer approach with the collar. And like the fellow above says there is L. Jolly's treat fetch method!
    Your choice whatever you do! Good luck.

    Here is Lori's link to E training
    http://e-trainingfordogs.com/2011/11...y-lorie-jolly/
    Last edited by Mary Lynn Metras; 02-17-2014 at 02:03 PM.
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  5. #15
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpate View Post
    I really value positive training and use it whenever possible to help teach the dog new skills. I have found it great for obedience and puppy training but I question its value with advanced retriever training (though retriever training is inherently positive - as long as there's a bird at the end of every retrieve). I also don't think there is such a thing as 100% positive.

    With that said, I think you can train a decent or even nice gundog able to do multiples and blinds without the use of force or aversives. Below are a couple of folks I know about who try to take a "purely positive" approach.

    Lindsay Ridgeway (mentioned above):
    http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/User:Li.../Print_Version

    Lorie Jolley
    http://www.rosehillretrievers.com/book.html

    and Robert Milner
    That is a lot of reading from Mr. Lindsay R. but interesting. At the end he mentions Susan Garrett's info. She has a DVD out on Crate Games which is really nice for your puppy at 49d to start with. You can use the clicker and treats. I found Garrett's Crate Games helpful when I continued on with Hillman's DVD and his use of the kennel as home base or place on send back when retrieving marks. IMO
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  6. #16
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    Is yelling at your dog part of 100% positive training? I have heard one of the above mentioned positive trainers yelling at their dog to pick up the bird and return across the pond. It was bad enough that if I were judging, I would have failed the team for intimidation.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by danjor92 View Post
    In noo way am I worried about my golden. I know she will be tough and handle training well. I am in no way worried about her, I plan for my dog to be trained the good ole traditional way. I started this thread out of pure curiosity. Since I had never talked to or read of a retriever trainer who didnt use ecollars or FF.

    Why is it that the modern/casual obedience trainer believes so strongly against the things that are staples in our side of the game? Is it simply the fact of what the dogs are bred for, job is, etc. A dog that has to work in the field needs that adversity to perform correctly, as where a house dog would never require that type of training.
    I think it is they want to be politically correct...

  8. #18
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danjor92 View Post
    In noo way am I worried about my golden. I know she will be tough and handle training well. I am in no way worried about her, I plan for my dog to be trained the good ole traditional way. I started this thread out of pure curiosity. Since I had never talked to or read of a retriever trainer who didnt use ecollars or FF.

    Why is it that the modern/casual obedience trainer believes so strongly against the things that are staples in our side of the game? Is it simply the fact of what the dogs are bred for, job is, etc. A dog that has to work in the field needs that adversity to perform correctly, as where a house dog would never require that type of training.
    I don't know what percentage of obedience trainers consider themselves 100% positive trainers. I know a few Janice Gunn and Judy Meyers among them, who are or were very successful in Obedience trials and also accomplished in field trials. I have no idea how Janice trains, maybe she'll pipe in, I train with Judy who is a pretty conventional field trainer. Also you have made the good point of is 100% positive even possible. As others have pointed out there are many other ways beyond physical force to apply pressure to a dog.

    John
    Last edited by John Robinson; 02-17-2014 at 05:02 PM.

  9. #19
    Senior Member polmaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Lynn Metras View Post

    As for a positive trainer??
    Good point!...I also believe there is not a 100% negative trainer
    However,this guy appears to have it?
    http://lumi-laddie-test-series.blogspot.ca/
    Last edited by polmaise; 02-17-2014 at 05:38 PM.
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  10. #20
    Senior Member Todd Caswell's Avatar
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    I think id'e find a different OB class..

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